Ep.6 Photography Adjacent Podcast - The Limitless Entreprenuer
In this week's episode, I had the pleasure of speaking with Robyn Davie, a forward-thinking photographer and entrepreneur from Johannesburg, South Africa.
Delving into the heart of Robyn Davie's work, we explored how her global journey profoundly shaped her approach to photography and leadership. The narrative is one of adapting to change, embracing community, and leading with a commitment to empowering the next generation of photographers.
Robyn's story is about adventure, determination, and evolution. Looking back over her career, she said that at 20, she journeyed to Los Angeles (LA), holding down several jobs. Then, one day, a pivotal moment came - a friend asked her to take a headshot of her.
"Los Angeles is obviously inundated with actors who need headshots. The first time a friend said to me, 'Can you take my photo?' And I was like, okay, sure. I did a terrible, terrible job of it," said Robyn. It was the middle of the day, it was high contrast, it was that time when we were still using Instagram filters basically on our photos. It was embarrassing! But the learning curve from then to now has been huge.
Despite the rocky start and the steep learning curve ahead, this early experience didn't deter Robyn - instead, it revealed that she could turn her passion into a viable career.
Since those early days, Robyn has crafted one of South Africa's most robust photographic brands, transforming her venture from a solo endeavour into an award-winning collective of fifteen dedicated professional photographers.
In 2021, she launched Fynn Studios as a space for photography and a community where creative women could excel. Under Robyn's leadership, the studio has flourished, symbolizing the resilience and determination that have always marked her path.
Now, from her base in Hamburg, Robyn continues to lead Fynn Studios with a forward-thinking approach. Her move underscores a fundamental philosophy: photography, work and pursuing your passions knows no boundary.
From my interview with her, I observed that at the core of Robyn's work is a fundamental belief in abundance and collaboration. She champions that the photography industry can thrive on mutual support rather than competition, fostering a space where creativity is nurtured, and success is shared.
I like her points on this, and I'm sure they will resonate with many of you as well. While there is nothing like healthy competition, there are plenty of opportunities for clients in most cities worldwide.
Join us as we uncover the layers of Robyn's inspiring path and her vision for a more inclusive and connected photography world.
Watch Now!
Tom Trevatt (00:02)
Robin Davie, thank you very much for joining us today on Photography Adjacent podcast. I think I'm speaking to you from Hamburg, right? Or you're in Hamburg.
Robyn (00:11)
This is true. Yeah, thanks, Tom. It's really great to be here. I am in a very cloudy gray Hamburg, Germany. Yes.
Tom Trevatt (00:19)
But obviously from your accent we can tell that you're not from Hamburg, you're from South Africa. A bit of a giveaway, I'm sure that people...
Robyn (00:25)
Is it that much of a giveaway? It's not a strong South African accent, though. Yeah, I hope not, at least. But yes, I am from South Africa, relocated to Germany nearly a year ago. Hmm.
Tom Trevatt (00:38)
Nearly a year ago. So this is coming up to a one year anniversary of being in Germany.
Robyn (00:43)
Yeah, it's wild that it's already a year, like you blink and the time disappears. So yeah, it's a good milestone.
Tom Trevatt (00:49)
So before we jump into things, let's get a little bit of a kind of intro about you. I know you certainly were a photographer, but now you run a photography company. So let's go back a couple of years, tell the story about how you started this.
Robyn (01:07)
Oh, they were going back more than a couple of years. So that was about 12 years ago. I was living in Los Angeles. I was in my early 20s. And it was just that kind of obviously needing to make money. I think I was working about seven part-time jobs at the same time. And Los Angeles is obviously inundated with actors who need headshots. The first time a friend said to me, can you take my photo? And I was like, okay, sure. I did a terrible, terrible job of it.
Tom Trevatt (01:09)
Okay.
Course
Robyn (01:36)
It was the middle of the day, it was high contrast, it was that time when we were still using Instagram filters basically on our photos. It was embarrassing, but the learning curve from then to now has been huge. But that was pretty much what planted the seed and I suddenly went, oh wait, I can actually make money from something that I just love doing. And yeah, that was the beginning of a long road.
Tom Trevatt (02:00)
Fantastic, so the first photograph you took was a terrible headshot of an actor. And you don't just take headshots though, do you? It's much more kind of, it's closer to personal branding photography that you do now.
Robyn (02:12)
Yeah, so it's taken a journey. So I was in L.A. for about two years and then moved back to my hometown in Johannesburg. I started with family photography at that point. And I was about 26, 27 when I realized I'd hit the financial ceiling of how is this what I can achieve? I'm 26, I'm working seven days a week, 16 hours a day. I'm editing, I'm shooting, I'm booking in clients, I'm doing the marketing, the finance, absolutely everything. Like this.
this can't be it, this can't be what I'm trying to achieve in this beautiful creative dream of mine. And that was when I took on my first associate photographer. But to answer your question, that was the journey from starting in headshots, heading into family photography. And then that was the main business for about eight years. And now we've actually gone back. Our main core is corporate photography again. It's simpler and easier without crying babies. I'm not gonna lie.
Tom Trevatt (03:04)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
I've never tried family photography and I don't want to. So I appreciate that. I understand that.
Robyn (03:10)
Yeah.
Yeah, there's a lot of joy in it and it definitely is a passion, but yeah, the simplicity of corporate photography is good as well.
Tom Trevatt (03:25)
Fantastic. And now you've got, I've seen the videos on Instagram, a pretty large scale natural light studio in Johannesburg, which you've run for how long?
Robyn (03:34)
Mm -hmm.
So we started that in 2021, right in the middle of the pandemic. It was January. I feel like I needed to check my sanity at that point because we'd gone from obviously beginning of pandemic, every single one of our photo shoots was canceled. I had to let go some of my team members. It was absolutely devastating. And in hindsight, it was actually one of the biggest growth points for me personally and for my business because I went, I've got this business that's basically defunct at this point.
Tom Trevatt (03:41)
Perfect timing!
Robyn (04:08)
We've lost 60 to 90 per cent of our revenue. What are we going to do? The first thing we did was we used other skill sets of my photographers, which was graphic design. So we started to get the team working in that sphere, which was really helpful. And then another natural light studio that we used in Johannesburg actually shut down. And I saw a gap in the market that we couldn't shoot in parks. We couldn't shoot at restaurants. We couldn't shoot anywhere outdoors. We needed a space for our photographers to shoot in. So I said, let's.
let's open a studio. I'm going to do it. Basically emptied out my bank account and my apartment because I furnished it with my own furniture from my apartment. It was a tough month that January, I remember. And also on like a bit of a hope and a prayer because I went, I don't really know if this is going to work. I'd polled a few photographers. I knew there was a gap in the market because another studio had shut down. But I was like, let's see what happens. And luckily within two months I was cash positive, so, a good investment. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Somehow it was around the corner from my house. There were all of these like serendipitous moments that kind of lined up a beautiful big space with these huge big pivoting doors. It made sense at the time because we needed something with a lot of airflow.
Tom Trevatt (05:06)
Hey, that's fantastic. That's good news. And was it the space that you now have that you rented at that point? Yeah.
Yeah.
Robyn (05:29)
a lot of height, like that just that kind of room that you could go into and you could feel safe, you could have distance from the clients and everything like that, lots of fresh air coming through. And then it was wild. The landlady had been using it as a warehouse to store her African artifacts that she was selling. But it is this beautiful space that has these plexiglass huge doors that open up, that let the light in but diffuse it perfectly. It was primed to be a studio and all I really had to do was bring my furniture in from my apartment and...
put in a little coffee bar in the corner and get some studio assistance in and then yeah, we were good to go.
Tom Trevatt (06:05)
Nice. It's, I mean, anybody who's watching this or listening to this can follow you on Instagram and check out your, the videos that you've got, the sort of BTS videos that you've got of this space. And it's absolutely fantastic. But it looks like a, almost like a aircraft hanger. This is the sort of scale of this thing. The volume of space on the inside is enormous.
Robyn (06:12)
Absolutely.
Yeah. Thank you.
My first idea for the name was actually something to do with Hanger. We were kind of playing around with that for a little while because that was exactly it. But yeah, I ended up with Fin Studio.
Tom Trevatt (06:32)
amazing. And then so this so this is called Finn Studio, FYNN. And this is the kind of basis for the business at the moment. It's more around Finn Studio rather than your name Robin Davy.
Robyn (06:37)
Mm -hmm. Yep.
It's definitely been part of the process over the last few years. It's kind of moving away from having my own name. And I think it was something I was aware of as well, of when I started bringing on associate photographers. It's hard to say not an associate and they are expecting Robin Davy to arrive at their shoot and I'm not there. But I made the decision to retire as a photographer in 2019 because I just couldn't do it anymore. I couldn't work for seven days a week anymore and I was burnt out and juggling everything was too much.
So definitely coming up with a different name was helpful to kind of build the brand around that. And it's definitely built our reputation as well, which has been really nice.
Tom Trevatt (07:27)
But you yourself as Robin Davey have a pretty strong personal brand already, which is pivoted presumably from being a photographer into being a business owner. And that's a lot of the reels that I see on Instagram of you. It's like, okay, so here I am running my business. This is the approach.
Robyn (07:33)
Yes. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's, that's the thing about, about a personal brand is that it allows you that flexibility because people are sticking with you because it's you. And that's definitely a benefit of having your name in there, but it's also the benefit of creating a strong, strong brand. And reputation has been so important to me. Like we are so incredibly careful and considerate of our clients, of knowing how to handle them, of handling tricky situations, of doing everything to the absolute best of our ability and making sure that yeah.
Tom Trevatt (07:54)
Mm -hmm.
Absolutely.
Robyn (08:18)
at the end of the day, that reputation stays positive. It's not always the case, obviously. You can't make everyone happy, but we do our best.
Tom Trevatt (08:24)
Sure, of course. And so you have now 12 members of staff on that that's sort of permanently within they're all in Johannesburg on site and you're currently a few thousand miles away.
Robyn (08:35)
Yeah, so everyone's in Johannesburg. They're all freelancers and independent contractors, which is nice because I don't want to tie anyone in. Everyone has their own photography side hustles. And yeah, so it's nice to have that flexibility. And mostly they'll stick with me for a couple of years. The longest one has been my operations manager who's been with me for seven years now, eight years.
but it's also amazing to bring in young photographers and we're an all female team. So I bring in young female photographers, teach them, mentor them. And I'm aware that after a few years, they're gonna fly off and soar and build their own businesses. And it's beautiful to really see that as well.
Tom Trevatt (09:14)
Yeah. But it's a kind of, it's a training ground for them as well as a job. Yeah, that's fantastic. Tell me more about the ethos of Fin Studios. What's the focus?
Robyn (09:20)
Exactly, yeah.
Um, I mean, our thing, and we were actually working on this at the end of last year, like what are our core values and what do we want to stand for? And definitely that sense of community. We're big into, into kindness and authenticity and transparency. Um, I think there's so many points in business in which you can kind of just be out for yourself or you could screw people over. You could just be in that for the money. And that's never appealed to me. I think we, we can add so much more value and we can be so much better humans than that.
And I think that's also bringing back to your previous question, the point about having a team is that we can support each other. Often photographers, you're just doing it by yourself and it's a lonely, lonely business. I've got so many friends who are photographers and it's made such a huge difference when you are in a situation with a client that's driving you up the wall and you just need to vent to someone or talk to someone. And yeah, so often you're on your own with that.
Tom Trevatt (10:20)
Absolutely.
Robyn (10:25)
So it's nice to actually have a team and to have each other's backs. And that's one thing that we've kind of promised each other is that no matter what the situation is, if someone phones me from a shoot and says, this is happening, I'm always gonna have my team members back before I have the clients back. That's my rule. It's a pretty basic one.
Tom Trevatt (10:41)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. That's nice to hear. Yeah, that's fantastic. It is incredibly lonely being a solo entrepreneur or a business owner by yourself. And it is lovely to have those kind of communities around you. One of the things I always find with photographers is that there's this kind of inbuilt sense of competition, right? That you've got your little markets.
Robyn (10:50)
Yep. Yeah.
Tom Trevatt (11:06)
and you've carved out your little space within that market and then suddenly you've got to be hyper protective of that little space like, I do this, I do that, I want to have those sorts of control of that area. And there's lots of suspicion in the photography game, which I'm like, fuck off, this is no good, I don't want any of this kind of stuff, I'm not interested in this. But it's lovely, it's not necessary.
Robyn (11:24)
No, no.
It's not necessary more than anything else. Like there's eight billion people on the planet. Like there's a market for every single person. We could have four billion photographers and we would still be fine. You would still have enough people to photograph. Like everyone has their different price points. Everyone has their different specific niche. Everyone has their style. Yeah, I've always, so often like you do these interviews and people say, so what do you think of the competition? I'm like, what competition? We're not a competition. We're a community. Like that's the difference.
Tom Trevatt (11:33)
Exactly.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I always think that like, you know, you walk down a street in a relatively busy city and on probably a hundred yards of walking down that street, you've passed as many people as you need in a year. You know, you've probably passed 150 people, 200 people or whatever it is, and you know, depending on how you run your business, that's probably all you need in a year. And there's one of those streets in every relatively large town and there's enough people.
Robyn (11:58)
Yeah.
Yep, there we go. It's a good way to think about it.
That's so true.
Yep. Yep.
Tom Trevatt (12:26)
that we need. So there's definitely no need for us to be worried about competition. And I think what's quite nice about what you're doing is that if you've got people who are coming in, they're coming in from the beginning, like they're maybe a lot younger and they're starting out and they're like, okay, so I'll come and work for Robin and then work for you for a couple of years. And then they kind of, they go out the other end, they've been sort of processed through the, through the Fin Studio sausage factory. They come out the other end.
Robyn (12:50)
Uh -huh.
Tom Trevatt (12:55)
And then obviously they carry with them that idea of being part of a community and they'll sort of, you know, you'll have that alumni effect presumably in a few years where it's like, oh, you know, I've got maybe sort of 10 or 15 people who've always been, you you've got their back, they've got your back going forward. And that's really lovely.
Robyn (13:13)
Yeah, it's always quite remarkable when we have our team get togethers at the end of the year. Like it's incredibly touching to sit and we always like have a moment of gratitude for each other and chat about the process. And almost every single one of them has said to me that they were in a place where they like needed help or desperately needed the community or were like seeking something just like this. And somehow our paths merged and they joined the team at the right time. And yeah, it's really beautiful to hear that you are making an impact.
Like it is still, even when you do have a team and you have people that are with you on it, it's still a lonely road at the top. So it's always good to get that feedback and to feel like you're making an impact.
Tom Trevatt (13:51)
Absolutely, absolutely. And who are your clients?
Robyn (13:57)
So since the main business was family photography for good like eight years or so, a lot of private families and that was really lovely because they would come back to us with every milestone, every kid that was born, every birthday and that was beautiful to document those moments. We do still do family photography as well, so it's not our biggest thing but it's really lovely to keep catching up with those families every six months or a year and that's a great market as well to keep getting those sales in.
Tom Trevatt (14:04)
Mm -hmm.
Robyn (14:26)
But now our biggest clients are our corporate shoots. And then my studio, I actually hire out to other photographers. So they're one of our biggest target markets is other photographers, which is why I continue to attempt to improve the community and the industry.
Tom Trevatt (14:33)
Mm -hmm.
Okay, amazing.
Absolutely. And of course, you run online courses and you do photography education. Is that relatively new?
Robyn (14:50)
Yeah, so that's been the last year basically that I started that. We were chatting just now about how this idea of competition and these are my secrets and I've learned this and you must know this and we can't steal each other's ideas. I have the complete opposite perspective of let's share our ideas, let's make the industry better. If we're all getting better, we can all charge higher prices. Like that's it. It's pretty simple. You don't have to compete with someone who's charging a super low price because they just haven't upskilled enough.
Tom Trevatt (15:13)
Of course.
Robyn (15:19)
So yeah, let's share that information. I love seeing other people thrive and grow and build their businesses and themselves at the same time. I've tried to go for quite a holistic approach to my online courses. Yeah.
Tom Trevatt (15:31)
So let's get a little bit more up to date. You were in Johannesburg, you started FinStudio in 2019, no, 2021. So you stepped back from holding the camera in 2019, you started FinStudio in 2021. And just in the last year, you dropped it all and disappeared off to Hamburg.
Robyn (15:41)
2021. Yes.
Yeah, yes, that's the one.
Tom Trevatt (16:00)
Um, cool. Okay. What took you to Hamburg?
Robyn (16:01)
Maybe that makes it sound very dramatic.
Well, just to go back to your previous point, I was running my business from my apartment in Johannesburg, so now I do it in my apartment in Hamburg and it doesn't make a huge amount of difference. I was pretty much doing everything virtually with the team. I'd pop into the studio every now and then, but since we mostly hired other photographers, I didn't need to be there for a lot of stuff. So it was definitely the right time and I think having the right team as well in place and knowing that I could trust them and that's a really powerful space to be in.
Tom Trevatt (16:24)
Mm -hmm.
Robyn (16:36)
Um, but yeah, it was, it was a hundred percent a personal choice to, to move overseas. I've, I've been wanting to move to Europe for probably about five years now. I've lived in a different country or continent for every decade of my life so far, and I'm not planning on stopping. I think it's the biggest gross opportunity. I think throwing yourself in the deep end, getting so far out of your comfort zone and starting from scratch is incredibly, incredibly powerful. It gets you out of your routines, shakes everything out. Um, so this.
Tom Trevatt (16:49)
amazing.
Robyn (17:05)
This time it was Germany.
Tom Trevatt (17:07)
and you're studying.
Robyn (17:09)
Yeah, so it really has been quite a transformative year going from moving overseas, kind of stumbling across this very interesting university, the Tomorrow University of Applied Sciences, which is based in Germany, even though it's an international university. And it just like set my soul on fire. It's sustainability, entrepreneurship and innovation. So it's all of the things that we should be learning right now, I think. And...
No matter what field you're in, you should never stop learning as a human being. Even more so in this age when the world is changing so quickly, we need to adapt with it as well.
Tom Trevatt (17:50)
I mean, you're speaking to the converted. I teach on a master's program. So I understand that. So I teach on an MA in art and politics in the politics department at Goldsmiths University. So yeah, it's pretty good. I've been doing that for I've been well, not teaching on that program, but I've been teaching in general at a university level for close on 20 years now. So I really love it. Yeah, fantastic.
Robyn (17:56)
Amazing! What are you teaching?
Fantastic! Ah, that's amazing!
Oh wow, oh there we go, I love it. That's the thing, you keep learning and then it's even in that role where you're teaching that you can learn more than anyone else. It's fantastic, yeah.
Tom Trevatt (18:20)
That was great. Yeah.
It's the best way to learn. It's the best way to learn. Yeah, absolutely. It's the best way to learn. And actually I've, I've recently, um, also started offering educational elements to my business. So I do one to one mentorships in the studio and I do kind of one to one zoom calls for people. So it's quite a nice, like, you know, I've learned this, right? Okay. Now I can, you know, this has been, you know, this is how I do it. This is not necessarily how you have to do it, but you know, this is quite a good way of doing it. So.
Robyn (18:37)
Amazing
Yeah, sure.
Make some online courses as well. Make money while you sleep. It's the future. Oh, amazing. I can't wait to see it.
Tom Trevatt (18:57)
There's one coming up, don't worry. It's in the pipeline. So tell me more about your online courses. I want to know more about this because I haven't done it yet. So maybe I'll sign up after this.
Robyn (19:08)
Yeah.
So my perspective has been the business side of things. I'm obviously more business -minded and entrepreneurial -minded. And I think there are already quite a few courses out there, of course, in terms of the actual photography aspects. But I do think that's something that's quite lacking in terms of photography education. I've had a lot of photographers join my team who've just finished three year degrees or diplomas. And they've done absolutely nothing to do with the business side of things, which I think is a huge letdown. Like as a photographer, you are going to be marketing, financials,
Tom Trevatt (19:33)
Nothing, yeah.
Robyn (19:40)
admin, absolutely everything operations creative director and if you've missed out on that part of your education and now suddenly you enter the job market. You're like, what what am I doing now? I've got to run my own business. I have no idea how yeah It's it's crazy that that you would pay for a three -year degree and it would be missing so much important information So that's yeah, that's pretty much the focus of my courses. It's marketing its branding its five management. It's kind communications productivity Yeah
Tom Trevatt (20:05)
Fantastic!
Oh, that's very, that's very, very important. It's, it's really interesting because I started my photography journey, um, in 2021. So I did, uh, an art foundation 20 years ago, but I picked up the camera again in, in, in during the pandemic. And so I opened my business in 2021 and yeah, it was like, how the hell do I do this? How do you start this process? So I spent and I still spend.
Robyn (20:16)
Yeah.
Tom Trevatt (20:34)
many hours per week, listening to podcasts, watching YouTube videos, reading blog posts, reading articles about running a business, marketing yourself, differentiation, all this kind of stuff, all the things that, you know, it's not about practicing photography because you do that in the studio. You know, you do, you do that on a regular basis. If you're shooting regularly, which you should be, then you, you're doing that on a regular basis. All that other stuff that you maybe have never thought about the things that you need to do, right?
Robyn (20:44)
Here we go.
Tom Trevatt (21:01)
marketing yourself as you can't just open your business and then suddenly expect people to come. It's not field of dreams, you know.
Robyn (21:03)
Absolutely.
Yeah, yeah. I've spent 12 years like bumping my head up against the table. Like that has been it being like, how do I do this? How do I handle this tricky situation with a client? How do I send invoices? How do I do accounting? How does that? And I've learned it by myself. And now I'm at the point where I'm like, well, I might as well teach other people that no one else should have to go through this struggle. Like it shouldn't have to be like that. Can we just circle back to where you said you started photography in 2021? That was two years, three years ago.
Tom Trevatt (21:28)
Exactly, exactly.
Mm -hmm.
Robyn (21:38)
You were taking photos before that though?
Tom Trevatt (21:40)
I did an art foundation in photography and that was 1999 to 2000. And then I went on to do an art undergrad. And then I stayed, I was doing that in Brighton and I stayed in Brighton and ran a gallery there and then moved to London to do my masters in curating and ran some more galleries and then did a PhD.
Robyn (21:51)
Okay.
Tom Trevatt (22:10)
Throughout all of that, I was not really taking photographs. There were some times when I was taking photographs of documentary exhibitions that I was curating, but really not in any kind of meaningful sense until really the pandemic hit and completely messed up everybody's lives. And it essentially prompted me to make a kind of radical departure from what the plan had been, which had been to be an academic, which I still am, but...
Robyn (22:26)
everything.
Yep.
Tom Trevatt (22:38)
just that I don't rely on academia as the place that I get all of my income from. So it was essentially an opportunity for me to be like, right, okay, what's the next, what's the big thing that I can do that will actually provide me with a source of income because academia is poorly paid, incredibly poorly paid. Yeah, it's terrible. Sort that shit out. So yeah, it was one of those kinds of moments where I was like, right.
Robyn (22:43)
Yeah.
the lift layer.
Tom Trevatt (23:06)
Okay, I've got to kind of make this big leap and change of my career path. And I bought a camera and just spent a year just getting back into it, learning it, watching a hell of a lot of YouTube videos, and then realizing in the beginning of 2021 that actually what I needed to do was find a way to, that the camera could make me money. And it was taking photographs of people and.
you know, people need photographs themselves. So I started in the, in the, in the, in my flat that I'm in at the moment and kind of, it a, it was a little sort of roller coaster of a journey through to the place that I am today. Um, very quick.
Robyn (23:33)
I do.
A very quick rollercoaster over the last few years then because your work is absolutely phenomenal. I was like, this guy's obviously been doing these portraits like 25 years or something and now you're telling me you've been doing it for a couple of years. I'm blown away. That is like beautiful, beautiful growth. Wow. Yeah.
Tom Trevatt (23:56)
That's very sweet. Thank you. Yeah, I put it on, I put, I put it on like, um, two times speed. I wanted to do it, you know, I wanted to do it really quickly. That's why I spend like every minute of the day, every waking minute that I can, you know, learning about this because I, I'm 42 and you know, you get to this stage of life where it's like, actually you want it to be happening now. You know, if I'd started this in my early to mid-twenties, then.
Robyn (24:14)
There we go.
Tom Trevatt (24:26)
I might not have the same kind of fire up my ass to do it, right? I'm like, right, I've got to actually make this work. I've got to make this a sustainable business really quickly, because I can't afford for it not to be sustainable. I can't take it a year out and reassess and do all that. I have to get it right. So it's like, when you've got that kind of fire, that's when you push hard. And thank you very much. That's a very high compliment coming from somebody who's much more experienced than I am. So that's lovely.
Robyn (24:45)
Yeah.
True.
But it's such an amazing story to hear as well. And I'm so glad we chatted about this. It's not just about my story, because I think there's so much value in that as well to show that I think a lot of people sit back and wait for that moment to happen and to show that if you do actively learn and you spend every single moment of your day pouring yourself into that and focusing on that passion.
Tom Trevatt (25:05)
Yeah.
Robyn (25:19)
that that's incredible growth within two or three years. And yeah, unbelievable. And I think if more people knew that and saw that and had that fire, yeah, it's incredible what you can achieve.
Tom Trevatt (25:30)
I think that it's a single, like I did a PhD, right? And when you're doing a PhD, there's a certain level of sort of singular mindedness. You have to, you have to have that kind of level of single singular mindedness. Uh, and I suppose I just took it on. I was like, right. Okay. You know, finish the PhD. What's the next big project that I have to undertake? And it was this. I was like, okay, right. I know where I need to go. And I'm finding the direction, you know, one step in front of the other.
Robyn (25:34)
Mm -hmm.
Yeah.
Tom Trevatt (25:55)
And I've had some amazing support. Like if you, you know, if you think about the group that we're both part of, Headshots Matter, it's been an absolute amazing group of people to be supported by. And that's really lovely. And, you know, to be honest, like having people around just saying, yeah, you're going in the right direction. Like that looks good. You know, having those people, you know, online communities and so forth is really, really wonderful. And, you know, that's really amazing. And it's...
Robyn (26:20)
Makes a huge difference.
Tom Trevatt (26:23)
It's those things that I think make all the difference. Um, you know, yeah, dedication. Yeah, kind of single mindedness, but also that kind of not being alone in the, in the struggle as it were. Um, the other thing I would say, you know, like for me, it's, it's always having a camera, like always, you know, when you're in that learning process, if you're not shooting on a very regular basis,
Robyn (26:33)
Yeah.
Absolutely. Yeah.
Tom Trevatt (26:46)
What are you doing? Like, you know, you've got to be, you've got to be shooting, even if it's literally just like going for a walk with a camera. Like I was incredibly lucky in the sense that I was, you know, we were in lockdown. There was literally nothing else I could do. So all I could do was go for a walk for that, like one bit of edge, one bit of exercise per day and like, right. My camera. So it was, you're forced into that. And that was, I think a unique position to be in. And, you know, it's kind of your.
Robyn (26:53)
Yeah.
Take photos.
Yeah.
Yep.
Tom Trevatt (27:16)
It's fine.
Robyn (27:17)
And there's no excuse for it as well. Cause like you say, you managed to find all that time and find things to photograph in the middle of the pandemic. When I started out, my thing was taking self-portraits. I would put my camera on a tripod and on a timer and just test out every different setting on that camera. Be like, what happens if I put it this way? What happens if I change the ISO like this? What happens then? And just seeing. And I think it's also powerful because it really gives you the chance to get comfortable in front of the camera as well.
Tom Trevatt (27:36)
Mm -hmm.
Robyn (27:44)
which a lot of photographers are like, no, I don't step in front of my camera. But you're, you're missing out on an opportunity then, because you have to know what it feels like to be on that side of the camera. Otherwise you can't make your clients feel comfortable. So get into those weird poses and sit in front of the camera and get other people to photograph you and see what it's like. I've been photographed by photographers who don't say anything. And it is the most unnerving thing to be in front of someone's lens. And they're just like, you're like, what is it good? Is it bad? What's happening? Is it terrible?
Tom Trevatt (27:54)
Yeah.
Robyn (28:13)
Do I look crap? Like, what is it? Like, you have to know these things. You have to be on that other side of the lens to realize. Yeah.
Tom Trevatt (28:19)
I had a lovely little shoot with a friend of mine yesterday and we were just doing this shoot and there's this little moment where I took the photograph and he clearly recognized that my little my facial expression was meant as a good photograph. He was like, was that good? I was like, yeah, it was good. His little reaction. Yeah.
Robyn (28:32)
Okay.
Yeah, people need that encouragement. Yeah, we always feel very insecure when a camera's pointed at us, so yeah. Yeah.
Tom Trevatt (28:44)
Yeah, absolutely. I'm jealous of your, um, your self-portrait time. I haven't gone through that. Maybe I did that a little bit back in the, back in the day, all on like, I used to shoot on slide film and I can remember doing a, this one, this one self-portrait, which was like the camera on a tripod and just doing a, um, a long shutter, a long, a long exposure. And then I had a flash, I had a little flash unit, which I would sit, so it was dark outside. So I'd sit in the, there.
Robyn (29:04)
Oh yeah, very nice.
Mm -hmm.
Tom Trevatt (29:12)
put the camera on long exposure and just flash myself in, in like five or six different places in the frame. And like it was all on slide films, like almost zero latitude on exposure. So it's like, you know, really like, yeah, it was a good experience doing that kind of stuff.
Robyn (29:15)
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah. Well, you can do it again. You can still do some more self -portraits. But yeah, even that, like testing out flash. A lot of people are not confident with flash photography, with setting up studio lights. And as soon as you have a client there, then it is extra pressure. But if you're just doing it self-portraits, set up the light, set up the flash, see what happens. Yeah. It's a really good way to learn.
Tom Trevatt (29:30)
Exactly.
Absolutely, yeah. So is your self-portrait still on your Instagram Robin or have you taken them off?
Robyn (29:47)
No, no, like 15 years ago. It's a very long time. I don't think it would even recognize me.
Tom Trevatt (29:52)
That's not me anymore. Right. Amazing. So tell me, we talked a little bit about marketing, a little bit about this kind of this element of what your education is aimed at. But what I really like to get out of you is like a little tip, a little nugget, a little bit of spice, a little bit of marketing go -to. What's the good piece of advice?
Robyn (30:03)
Mm -hmm.
Uh huh.
What a spy.
I mean, if we're talking about marketing, I think it all comes down to narrative. And as photographers, that's a very fun realm to play in. But I think everyone in any kind of industry should be looking at narrative above everything else. I think the essence of storytelling, I mean, it's literally in our DNA. It's how we have survived as a species is sitting around fires and telling each other stories of don't go over there. There's a sabertooth tiger. Like we know this. It's.
Tom Trevatt (30:43)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Robyn (30:47)
how we get people to relate to us. It's how we let down our barriers. It's how we let people in and it's how we can take people on a journey. And I've always said this to my photographers as well, whenever they're going into a shoot, think of it as a story. It has to have a beginning, a middle and an end. How are we putting this together? And you want to take people on that journey as well. Definitely the more that I have noticed that I tell my own story through my Instagram reels, through my website, through the videos that we put together.
That business has boomed since I've started doing that. And it's scary. Every person is like, oh, well, it's, yeah, it comes so naturally to you. It hasn't. It absolutely hasn't. I used to be like 91 % introvert, couldn't even leave the house, but it's this muscle and you have to train yourself and you have to get better at it. You have to start to post and to show up. And unfortunately, it would be great if you could just stick a photo up online and be like, look how great my work is. Hi, I'm me. But that's...
That's not enough. There's a lot of photographers with really great work out there. So you need to be able to tell that story and set yourself apart.
Tom Trevatt (31:51)
think this is absolutely what I believe in as well. I think this is absolutely true. I had this, uh, I just, before we had this, have this conversation, I was doing a location shoot. Um, you could call it kind of personal branding shoot. Um, this young woman who's, uh, a coach, she coaches business people in like how to use their minds well, but we shot this amazing, we should do this shoot in this amazing location. It's called the Old Sessions House in London. And it's this old Georgian.
Robyn (31:55)
Mmm.
Yeah.
Mm -hmm.
Tom Trevatt (32:21)
Enormous Georgian building that has been turned into a club, essentially like a, you know, not a nightclub, but like a members club. And it's just amazing, amazing building, building and indoor, these spaces, just beautiful big windows. They've stripped all of the paper off the paint off the walls, just bare bare walls. And it's just absolutely stunning. And I was saying to her, I was like, you know, I'm
Robyn (32:23)
Beautiful.
Tom Trevatt (32:49)
Just starting out in this kind of personal branding world as a photographer, you know, I do headshots majority of my work, but I also want to do a little bit more personal branding stuff closer to what your team does. And I was just saying to her, I was like, whenever I look at personal branding photography online, there's like one photograph of that person. And it's like thigh up photograph invariably of them looking smart, looking nice with a nice big smile on their face. Lovely. That's fantastic. It's a nice photograph of that person. Wonderful.
Robyn (32:52)
Mm -hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Tom Trevatt (33:18)
It ain't personal branding because branding is about the feeling that you get from looking at somebody's work, their website, the touch points of their business. And that is not that, that feeling, that story is not told through one photograph. So it's absolutely about telling stories through a sequence of photographs. And you're absolutely right. Beginning, middle, and end. You've got to kind of construct this story through that narrative through that. So.
Robyn (33:20)
Yeah.
Mm -hmm.
Absolutely.
Tom Trevatt (33:46)
think it's really important that we think about that. So that is a nugget, little takeaway nugget there. That's fantastic. Amazing. So tell me what's the future? What does the future hold? You're doing your masters, come back to education and is it a one year course, two year course? What's the plan? 18 months. Nice. I like longer courses. I think the one year, one year masters is a absolute
Robyn (33:49)
Yeah, it's powerful.
yesterday.
Yep.
18 months. Yeah, yeah.
Tom Trevatt (34:17)
terrible idea, but you're doing that and so you're running Finn remotely and will you stay in Hamburg after you finish the Masters or somewhere else?
Robyn (34:19)
Yeah.
You know, I want to have a good answer for you, but I'm in this like transition period, limbo, interesting, like opening doors and seeing what's on the other side. And a lot of those doors are open. There's nothing there. And I'm just wondering like what's happening and what is next. I'm definitely feeling really confident with how the business is going in Johannesburg this year, which is really nice because last year was a wild one. The whole South African economy is not doing so well. So.
been tough to navigate that. But yeah, we're off to a better start this year, which is really good. And if it can just keep ticking along, that would be fantastic. It definitely feels like it's kind of the start of a new chapter for me, obviously moving overseas and this master's degree. And I'm going to wait and see. You'll have to come back and interview me again and see where it goes. Yeah, what doors get opened and where they lead to. Yeah.
Tom Trevatt (34:58)
that and lots of photos.
six months time, eight months time, of course.
Nice. And if you just, are you, did you just start this September? Is it just recent that you started the Masters? Okay. So you've got a whole year left to go through that. That's amazing. Well, I'll definitely stay in touch and we can talk about that. Do you still photograph?
Robyn (35:29)
Yeah, yeah, it just started in September. Yeah, only a few months in.
yeah yeah definitely
Um, not really. I've downgraded my, well, upgraded, downgraded. I'm now on a mirrorless Nikon, which is really nice, but it mostly sits in my cupboard, which really is quite a waste. I pull it out every now and then when we have to shoot some content. But yeah, I definitely don't professionally take any photos anymore. I snap away on my phone all the time, absolutely. And love taking videos these days as well to update 'the gram.'
Tom Trevatt (36:07)
Mm -hmm. Of course.
Robyn (36:13)
Um, but yeah, it's, it's a, it's something that a lot of people ask me because as a creative, you're supposed to be creating all the time and you're supposed to be, have this camera in your hands. But I think there can definitely be a shift. And I find a lot of creativity in running my business and building the brand and in all the elements that I get to create around that and, and watching people blossom as well and like fostering that kind of growth within them. So there's, there's different ways to be creative within your business. I think.
Tom Trevatt (36:13)
Yeah.
No, absolutely. That's fantastic. I find that as well. Like I love taking photographs and I was still in the kind of honeymoon phase of doing studio shoots. Um, but I also recognize that there's a huge creative part of my brain that is aimed at like how to, how to make my business operate in the way that I want it to operate. Like, Oh, do I, how much do I want to earn this month? Okay. Let's try and make it like this. Okay. How do I want to make, you know, you know,
Robyn (37:05)
Mm -hmm.
Tom Trevatt (37:11)
10 more people come to the studio next month than they did the previous month, those sorts of things. You know, how do you actually make those, that process, you know, for me, it's like, okay, well, how do I make an offer that is so irresistible that people have to book straight away and, you all those kinds of things. So you kind of constantly kind of ticking over those ideas, like how to run a business, which is really exciting.
Robyn (37:14)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, but it's good to have that strategic mindset as well. And I think a lot of photographers and a lot of creatives go, oh, no, no, I'm a creative, I'm an artist, my brain doesn't work like that. And we know that this myth has been completely debunked, that it's not that you can do maths or you can take photos. Those two things, you can actually do both of them. Mostly it's a stigma, mostly it's a stigma, like the way you've been raised, or it was some terrible teacher who humiliated you in front of the class when you're doing your times tables. That was me.
Tom Trevatt (37:48)
I can't do maths.
Robyn (37:59)
Not that I was a teacher, I was the one being humiliated. But that kind of creates the stigma against doing math for the rest of your life. But it just doesn't work like that. Our brains work in incredibly amazing ways. And you can be strategic and creative at the same time. You can put together an Excel spreadsheet and go, okay, cool. Well, I want to make X amount this month. How can I do that? Just like you're saying. That means I've either got to charge more, I've got to bring in those 10 extra clients. And to do that,
Tom Trevatt (37:59)
Yeah. Right, yes.
Robyn (38:26)
What advertising campaign do I need to put together? Can it be organic content or do I need to run a Google ad? And it's, yeah, that for me is the really fun side of things is to figure those bits out.
Tom Trevatt (38:32)
Mm -hmm.
Amazing. Yeah. I'm incredibly lucky in the sense that I've got Barry. Barry is our producer. So Barry is the producer, but he's also an excellent marketer. I mean, I don't know whether you managed to have a little chat with him before we started, but his background is in marketing. So he's been incredibly helpful with me in my business. So he's also doing a lot of work with Headshots Matter as well at the moment. So he's a...
Robyn (38:42)
Oh, man.
I don't know.
Okay. Amazing. Yeah.
Very nice. But that's the community. There we go. That's what makes the difference. Yeah. You got to have a support system.
Tom Trevatt (39:05)
Exactly, that does make the difference. Yeah, no, it's fantastic. If you were to look back to your 20-something-year-old-self...
Let's pick an age, 24. What were you doing at 24? And what would you say as you are now? The other end, the other side of this big journey that you, that you are now. I'm sorry, I wasn't going to assume your age. What would you say? What would you say to your 24 year old self?
Robyn (39:28)
37. Yeah.
Well played.
I mean, you chose a tough age because that was the age I was getting married to someone that I shouldn't get married to. So that's on the personal front. Don't get married. It's a trap! Don’t do it. But we figured that one out in the end. So that's OK. Definitely, I think that I wish I could go back and have the information that I have now. That like bumping my head against the wall thing was...
Tom Trevatt (39:46)
Okay, so that's a good lesson.
Robyn (40:06)
was incredibly painful and unpleasant. And I think I could have accelerated my growth a lot more. I was doing some online courses and watching YouTube videos and stuff like that. There wasn't as much as there is now. And definitely the idea of investing in products like that didn't sit in my brain at that time. So if I were to go back, I would be like, 'Kid.
get those online courses, learn as much as you can, and build that support system in that community.' It's something that has slowly organically grown over the years, but I think I could have done more at that time to build it up.
Tom Trevatt (40:41)
Absolutely, absolutely. I think that's, you know, for me, it's like I look back at maybe when I was in my mid-twenties at the late-twenties or early twenties. I think if I had started a business, if I'd started doing photography like I'm doing it now, I don't know where the resources would be. Like the things that I watch and I read and I look at, you know, there's so much available now, so much amazing information available now. I don't know if I'd have been successful, particularly.
Robyn (40:43)
Mmm.
Mm -hmm.
Yeah.
Tom Trevatt (41:11)
back in my 20s. Sure, yeah, let's say that.
Robyn (41:13)
Well, you wouldn't have been successful as fast. That's what's blown my mind about your journey is the speed. Yeah. Start three years ago like you accelerated it. It's fantastic. Or do it my way and just bump your head until 12 years later you get there.
Tom Trevatt (41:21)
Yeah.
I'm gonna go.
Well, everyone needs to go and buy your course so that they can do it at the sort of 10 times speed. I think that's a great idea. I'll get 10 % there.
Robyn (41:34)
I mean, you said it, you said it. It sounds like a great idea. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. We see, we see.
Tom Trevatt (41:44)
Robin, if there's places that people need to come and see, how can they find you online? What should they be looking at?
Robyn (41:52)
Ah, very good question. We are everywhere. I have three Instagrams, three websites, two Facebook pages, three LinkedIn pages. It's a lot. But the main one, my personal one is Robin Davie. I share a lot of business tips on there and what the team has been up to, a lot of our photo shoots. Then we've got the film studio page, which is really great for photographers as well, because we share a lot of really great tips, but specifically photography related on that page.
Tom Trevatt (42:22)
Mm -hmm. Lovely.
Robyn (42:23)
And then we also have Fin Innovate, which is our online course page. And that's where you can get more generalized business tips and a lot of information about the online courses. Yeah.
Tom Trevatt (42:28)
amazing.
Fantastic. We will put all of that information in the little box below so everyone can check it out and follow you on Instagram. But just so that they're aware, it's Robin Davy with a Y in Robin and an IE in Davy. So it's very good.
Robyn (42:43)
never again do you think.
Yep, yep. I love it. Fantastic. And they must pop me a message when they do find me, because it would be great to connect and make that community. That's the idea, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yes, absolutely. I like it.
Tom Trevatt (42:57)
Absolutely. Exactly. Exactly. Slide into your DMS. Amazing. Robin, thank you so much. Before we go, is there anything you want to just like shout about something that's going on in your brain? You want to talk about anything that you've got burning?
Robyn (43:07)
Mm -hmm.
I mean, the one thing I was thinking was how great your interview skills were because I feel like you've covered everything. I mean, yeah, yeah, I think I think that's it. Maybe if there's one thing that's been on my brain recently, and it's just because we're doing our sustainability foundations and in my degree at the moment is it's just this and it ties into this thing about being being a better human and being a kind of human. But we're currently working on how you can even optimize your business in terms of what's happening in the world right now. And I think it is quite a relevant point to say.
Tom Trevatt (43:20)
That's very sweet.
Robyn (43:45)
Is your business climate friendly? Are you carbon neutral? And it can be something as simple as you go, oh no, I just take photos in a studio, like that doesn't have a huge knock on effect, but where is your business investing its money? Which bank are you using? Is that bank investing in fossil fuels? Like it's a big topic to raise right at the end of the conversation, but definitely something to think about. And it's...
Tom Trevatt (44:05)
fantastic, it's fantastic.
Robyn (44:09)
It's time for it. It's definitely time that we think more about what we're doing and what our business impact is. Yes.
Tom Trevatt (44:16)
Amazing. Well, we'll have you back on again at the end of your Masters and we can be updated on the journey that you're taking away you're going to go next. But Robin, thank you so much for joining us today. Hope to speak to you again.
Robyn (44:24)
We'll see what happens. Yeah.
This has been amazing. Yes, this has been fantastic. Thanks, Tom. Have a good day. Bye.
Tom Trevatt (44:33)
Thank you.