Ep.2 Photography Adjacent Podcast: Unconventional Beginnings with Jacqui McSweeney
Imagine declaring yourself a professional photographer before capturing your first shot, only for fate to take that declaration at face value.
Jacqui McSweeney claimed during a casual conversation at a bar: "I'm a photographer." The truth? She wasn't. "I kind of blagged my way into that, like we all do," Jacqui recalls. "I wasn't, I just wanted to be."
Yet, as fate would have it, the person she spoke to owned an English-speaking newspaper in the Czech Republic. This chance encounter propelled her from that bar in Prague to a flight to Italy for a press junket and, eventually, to a job that marked the start of her professional career.
Jacqui's journey illustrates the power of trusting your instincts and taking the first step in building a remarkable career. This episode Jacqui teaches a true masterclass in self-belief.
Transitioning from press to weddings and then finding a true passion in headshot photography, Jacqui's career has been anything but linear. The diversity of this journey adds depth to her work, enabling her to capture those she photographs authentically. As Jacqui practices it, headshot photography is not just about getting a good angle or the proper lighting—it's about connection, conversation, and revealing the subject's story through their eyes.
You don't want to miss my chat with Jacqui as we dive into the nuances of telling a story through her lens, the evolution of her career, and the realization that, sometimes, the atmosphere of the studio and the rapport with the subject are as crucial as the camera itself.
Don't forget to hit that subscribe button for more inspiring stories where we speak to artists, activists, writers, and the occasional photographer to learn about life through their lens.
Tom Trevatt (00:01.566)
Jacqui McSweeney, thank you very much for joining me today on Photography Adjacent. We've maybe known each other for a couple of months now, a few months now as part of the Headshots Matter team. And we've met in person, which is not true of everyone that I've spoken to on this podcast so far. But for people who don't know you, could you give me a little bit of kind of information about who you are, what you do, and a little bit of background information about you?
Jacqui (00:29.726)
Sure, I'm Jacqui and I'm based in Brighton. I've been a photographer and it's sort of scary to say it out loud, but I actually went self-employed on the first of the first 2000. So you can very easily date me. So, yeah, I am. I was a photographer before then, but that was finally going self-employed and being on a jet. And I am currently doing headshots and that's where I'm going moving forward. But My background comes from originally from press and that started in the Czech Republic, strangely enough. And I kind of blagged my way into that like we all do. I was in a bar and someone asked me what I did and I said, I'm a photographer and I wasn't, I just wanted to be. And he said, I own a newspaper. And then...
Tom Trevatt (01:12.231)
Oh wow!
Jacqui (01:28.69)
which is not something that normally happens. And then the next day I was on a flight to Italy to do a press junket thing, which was lovely. And then he offered me a job. And then so that was it. And I moved to Prague for two years to be a photographer, which was amazing. It was in an English language newspaper. And it was a very exciting time when Prague was opening up. That part of the world was opening up. And then I've traveled around a little bit since then, but I based myself back in the UK.
Tom Trevatt (01:43.85)
That's incredible.
Jacqui (01:57.698)
free 2000 and then I've sort of done a bit of everything. I kind of was doing a lot of music when I first came to Brighton because it's a very music town, but there's no money in it, in music photography. And that got frustrating. And then I started doing weddings and then it was suddenly I blinked and I'd been doing weddings for years and it kind of wasn't what I wanted to do anymore. I was, you know, don't get me wrong, I enjoyed my work and I was good at it, but I had meant, I don't think I'd meant for it to go on for so long.
Tom Trevatt (02:07.486)
Mm-hmm.
Right. Yeah.
Jacqui (02:26.922)
And then lockdown happened. And that gave me pause to think about what I wanted to do.
Tom Trevatt (02:27.128)
Mm-hmm.
Wow. Okay, so that took all of two minutes or even less to tell us the story of the last 20 years. It's incredible. I don't know what's happened in between. So you live in or just outside of Brighton at the moment, but you work in your studio is in Brighton. We're gonna get onto that in a moment because there's some big news. But.
Jacqui (02:38.646)
That's a summary. Lots happened in between.
Yeah.
Tom Trevatt (02:53.838)
You started really in a professional capacity in 2000, so 24 years ago. So while everyone else was getting over the hangovers of the biggest new years that they were gonna see, you were starting a business, okay. Well done, congratulations. Yep. Okay, the computer didn't crash, right? We can start a business, got it.
Jacqui (03:13.282)
Mm-hmm. Literally that, just after Y2K, yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, I didn't need a computer, I had film.
Tom Trevatt (03:23.866)
Right. Okay. Yes, of course. I think I was shooting on film in the year. No, yes, the year 2000. Yeah, I was shooting on film in the year 2000 down in no not down in Brighton down in Exeter. So we've kind of we've chatted about this before but Obviously, one of the new things that's happened to you is this new studio. So we're going to go we're going to kind of start a couple of years back and look at the way that you transitioned from being a wedding photographer, presumably in and around the Brighton area. Did you travel as well for that or was it specifically? It was all over the world. It's too.
Jacqui (03:58.846)
Oh yeah, I've done weddings all over the world really.
Tom Trevatt (04:04.77)
really locating yourself. So changing from being somebody who was traveling regularly away from home quite often, maybe kind of mostly at the weekends to somebody who's like right okay I'm going to take the photography and I'm going to I'm going to kind of focus it on a location. And you've had this um so the big news is that you have just signed on a new studio so that's it.
Jacqui (04:24.498)
Yeah, literally as we came onto this, I just, I signed, yeah, it's signed. So that's quite exciting. I'm currently in a studio in Hove, but it's quite tucked away and it's, it's been really good for a while just for me to find my comfort zone and all of that. And, and to learn what I do and don't want from a studio. Cause I think that takes time. Anyway, I decided to go looking again.
Tom Trevatt (04:30.598)
Yeah, that's amazing.
Jacqui (04:50.662)
because I kind of had a break from it. And then this place came up and it just seems everything that I wanted out of the blue. And I signed and I move in on the first of March in the centre. It couldn't be more central Brighton. It's probably the exact middle of Brighton city centre, right across from a very famous landmark, the Pavilion. And yeah, it's amazing. I'm very excited.
Tom Trevatt (04:57.226)
amazing.
It's exactly the location that every photographer would want to have a studio, essentially, isn't it? It's a minute walk from the sea. It's a minute from the, from the, like the major shopping centers and stuff of Santa Brighton, every bus cross is there. It's, it's head. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So it's absolutely perfect. Um, and it's not the biggest studio in the world, but it's always good to have these little challenges, these little kind of limitations to work within a studio. So.
Jacqui (05:18.066)
Yeah, it's crazy.
Jacqui (05:24.594)
Every bus crosses there and it's a lovely walk down from the station to there if you're coming down from London or anywhere else.
Jacqui (05:42.142)
Yeah, I think you've got it. If you can tick all the boxes, you're incredibly lucky. I've realized that after the last few years, you know, if you've all the money in the world, you'll get all the space in the world, you'll get ceiling height, you'll get the location, but you know, we're all limited by our budgets and I don't want to have to sort of whack up my prices because I need everything on my list. So this ticks kind of nine out of ten of the boxes and it's just, I am restricted slightly on height, but I'm not on height, that's what I'm not restricted on.
on the sort of length of the studio really, but I think I know I'll make it work because I stood there yesterday and I felt the area that I photograph in anyway. I'm not somebody who's taking up the whole space. By the end of every shoot, I'm practically nose to nose with my person anyway, even though I start off thinking, I'm gonna really use the space today and then we're up really close at the end. So yeah, I think you're gonna have to come, and what happens is ceiling height is such an issue.
Tom Trevatt (06:23.87)
Mm-hmm.
Tom Trevatt (06:27.864)
Yeah
Jacqui (06:40.83)
And here, I'm sure everywhere, if they go in, there's a lot of Georgian buildings here, and if they go in there, they'll convert them and they put these false ceilings and they're eight foot and they're just not right. So this guy hasn't done that here.
Tom Trevatt (06:50.746)
No, of course. Bit of luck. But how has being in a studio changed your photography? Because obviously going from, yeah, wedding photography is portraiture in many ways. It's a combination of lots of different types of photography. But you do a lot of portraiture within wedding photography. So how has transferring from wedding, the sort of portraiture you would do.
on location using available light and maybe sometimes sort of off camera flash. But how has that changed or not, or not, never, or how's that changed to now working or having worked in a studio for the last year and now having that kind of prospect of starting your own studio. How'd you feel you've kind of developed or how's the studio?
Jacqui (07:24.683)
Never enough reporters, I hate that.
Jacqui (07:37.022)
It took me time to slow down because on a wedding day, you're just bang, bang going, not like bang, bang on the shots. I take, you know, I do consider every shot I take, but the day is mental and there's a lot to fit in and you might be going to different locations. So it took me quite a while to sort of get in the moment and just be still. And I'd probably still have to rein myself in with that and remind myself that this is our time and we can just be there together.
Tom Trevatt (07:57.983)
Mm-hmm.
Jacqui (08:06.818)
So that was the main thing for me really was slow down. It's just you and your subject, which is what I wanted. And yeah, that's it really. And of course you don't have the environment to tell the story, you know? You're like, I just have the person and where is in my background, I had everything involved in that image that would tell the story. So telling the story became a different process.
Tom Trevatt (08:33.186)
Yeah, of course. I always find that, because I've had a number of different studios over the last couple of years, one of which was in my flat, which I'm in at the moment. And I always find that the studio space makes the biggest difference to the quality of the work or the feeling of the work. It changes each time I move a studio, there's something different about that work. Whether that's the light, whether I'm using natural light or whether that's just the...
You know, the fact that like, you know, some studios have got white walls and gray floors and some studios have, you know, or some spaces have got like, you know, a color in that on the floor or something like that, which adds a different kind of color into certain parts of the, the skin tones.
Jacqui (09:12.046)
Hmm
Yeah.
Tom Trevatt (09:17.622)
Or if it's just really the feeling of the space, like the size, the kind of, you know, the sort of the atmosphere that the space brings. I always think that changes something. So, you know, we can have these kinds of conversations like, you know, does gear matter? And, you know, should we be thinking about like the cameras and the lenses and the lights and all that kind of stuff? I think we should include like the studio on that list because it very much, it does matter, that feeling that comes from a studio, I think, matters. And you're just about to embark on that amazing journey of kitting out your own studio to be able to start that.
Jacqui (09:51.45)
Yeah, yeah, and I think it is a feeling. So, you know, let's say like buying a house or something, you know, you walk in somewhere and you get a feeling. And yesterday when I went to see that studio, I walked outside and I looked through the window and I went, no, no. I can see the back of the wall. I don't want to see the back wall from where I'm sitting. But actually, then the second I opened the door, I had a completely different feeling and could feel myself working there. And what really was a big thing for me is that there's two massive windows.
Tom Trevatt (10:19.737)
Mm-hmm.
Jacqui (10:19.758)
that are south facing and I've been in a box for two years now. Where are we, February? Yeah, it's almost exactly two years. And I'm in basically a black box. So it's going to be amazing to have available light again. And I'm glad I've waited and so that I all the skills that I've got from just shooting without available light can now bring that back into my available light shooting and so I can now put the two of them together, I think.
Tom Trevatt (10:24.519)
Yeah.
Tom Trevatt (10:45.363)
That was fantastic.
Jacqui (10:46.558)
I think I'm excited to see the first shoot I do. You know, what will it be like? What would I be drawn to? Will I be drawn more to the available light or will I sort of, I don't know. That's very exciting. It's the very first shoot in there.
Tom Trevatt (10:50.445)
Yeah.
That's great. I mean, one of the things that strikes me about your work is that it's absolutely about the intimacy that you create with the person that you're shooting. It's about that kind of connection. And so, you know, having a massive studio isn't really the most important thing for you. Having that kind of space that you can kind of work.
Jacqui (11:13.798)
No, for me it's very much a one-to-one thing. It's a conversation, 100%. And it's, the very first photographer I ever fell in love with was Jane Bowen, you know, the observer photographer. And I actually met her once and we had a conversation which was amazing and I asked her a couple of questions but she famously used just to go in and get five minutes with these huge stars and shoot on.
an Olympus and she would show everything at the exact same setting. So she would bring them to where that setting would work on her camera. So cool. And for her, every, every shot I ever saw of her, do you think that person was crawling out of the picture and into sitting down with you? You know, that's what it was hugely about the connection. And that's the way it is for me, if I can see something in their eyes.
then I don't think I've captured what I want to capture. Of course, everything else is really important, but for me, it's the story of their eyes, you know, there's just that. So.
Tom Trevatt (12:12.578)
Yeah, absolutely. You know, you flick through the joy of shooting on digital these days is that you can shoot hundreds of photographs and then at the end you make the selection of which ones that you like. And it's, there's just like, you can have two photographs that are almost identical and they'll just be the tiniest of difference and you know which one's the right one to choose because it's that feeling that you've captured.
Jacqui (12:18.862)
Mm.
Yeah, absolutely. It's just that flicker of the eye. Something changes. Because something in their thinking of, their mind is changing. And the conversations you have, I really talk to my clients when they're with me. I can't stop doing that. I've been doing it for 20 odd years. I just talk as I photograph, and it's always how I've done it. I can't do it any other way. So the conversations we have are incredible. So you can go from like, oh, how did you get your hair black and flat?
Tom Trevatt (12:39.003)
Exactly.
Jacqui (13:01.662)
like wow, like something hugely profound by the end of the shoot or even like halfway through the shoot and I'm blown away by that and how comfortable and how open and honest that they are and then that is 100% available in their eyes, you know, that's What we're always looking at Um, so that's my passion is what's coming out in the eyes
Tom Trevatt (13:17.942)
No, absolutely.
Tom Trevatt (13:21.862)
Absolutely. Do you predominantly shoot actors and performers, creative folk in your...
Jacqui (13:27.658)
I also shoot, I mean, for years I've always done headshots of corporate people, not my fame, if they're watching. And corporate people who are really, but then I have some clients, I've had some clients who really care what it looks like. So I've had, I've had a firm of solicitors in London who really want interesting shots every year and I love that. And then you've got the people who you think, well you could book anyone because they just want someone up against the white wall.
Tom Trevatt (13:34.331)
Okay, yeah. Lots of corporate people are watching this, that's for sure.
Tom Trevatt (13:42.602)
Absolutely.
Tom Trevatt (13:54.526)
Yeah
Jacqui (13:54.93)
So I've always done that. But then I will still get people in the studio who, like I just did a woman who's just retrained as a psychosexual counselor. And she came into the studio for her website shots and amazing conversation there. So no, they're not all actors and performers. They're kind of a mixture really, entrepreneurs.
Tom Trevatt (14:17.21)
Yeah, because Brighton's an interesting town. It's close enough to London that people could make their journey down from London or nearby to see you, but it's also close enough to London that people might go, do you know what, I'm going to work with a photographer in London and get the train up to see them. So there's that kind of odd little competition in it. Yeah. Keeping them in place.
Jacqui (14:23.831)
Listen.
Jacqui (14:31.09)
Yeah, yeah. That's my challenge is trying to have them not go to London to people like yourself. So it is that. They don't need to, but I think, and there are of course, there are photographers here doing good jobs. I think there aren't really creative headshot photographers here. I think there's very traditional in a way.
So I think the people that will go to them won't ever come to me anyway. But yeah, the people I want are the people who will travel, people who will get on who care enough to get on a train for a decent shot. So they're the ones that and I also get people coming from London and from because I cover like Chichester where there's a lot of performers and the other direction, like Hastings and stuff like that. So it's a good spread.
Tom Trevatt (15:09.63)
Yeah.
Tom Trevatt (15:20.522)
Absolutely. I used to live in Brighton and so I know the city relatively well. I did my undergrad there and stayed there for another couple of years. But it always did feel like it was in a little bit in that kind of shadow to London. Because I was in the arts and you know the arts always felt a little bit like, oh yeah you can have your gallery, you can have the exhibition space but it's...
Jacqui (15:25.483)
Yeah.
Jacqui (15:36.356)
Mm.
Tom Trevatt (15:43.27)
You know, London's just there. You can go and see, you know, all of these shows and so forth. So it always felt a little bit like just in that shadow. Um, I love Brighton. It's a great city. Um, but it's a challenge, right? It's a challenge starting a business, um, in us, in a city that maybe does have. Another very large city, very, very close to it or relatively close to it. Um, one of the things that kind of strikes me about.
about your work then is like you say, there's a kind of creativity, there's a kind of, you know, there's sort of the artistic element to what you do that maybe other photographers, other headshot photographers in that area just haven't kind of gone on that bandwagon or got on that kind of train yet. You know, let's think about ways to make headshot photography a little bit more interesting or you know something like that.
Jacqui (16:24.035)
Damn.
Yeah.
Tom Trevatt (16:33.85)
Why do you think that is? Like, you know, there's an absolute fucking surfeit of headshot photographers in London that are just trying all sorts of different things, but what's happening in Brighton?
Jacqui (16:44.31)
Down here, I think comfort, you know, I think it's comfortable. I think if they have an existing career and it's sort of going okay, you know, we're all guilty of getting comfortable. Um, you know, I don't know really Brighton, as you say, Brighton is a funny town because we often do, and myself as a Brighton person too, you will just hop on the train. So I don't know what it is. There's definitely some photographers. Oh, I don't know. There's sort of a bit stuck, but.
creatively, there's not there. So I don't know, really, there is, there's, there's this, because if you, if you go out and bright, you'll meet 50 photographers, you know, and if you, my old address on my, my website is if you look on the Google Maps for that, there are 20 photographers on the road I've just was living on until recently. So, so yeah, there are a lot of photographers around, but also I included myself.
Tom Trevatt (17:21.874)
Absolutely, yeah. It's full of creative.
Jacqui (17:43.326)
was working in London for years. So I was seeing London as my sort of where I went to work, aside from weddings, which could have been anywhere. So I think we all assume that that's where the big box is. And anyone who's maybe just here isn't kind of latching onto that. But why there's some photographers not kind of going down the creative room? Not every photographer has to be creative. You know, there's sort of very, there are photographers who are making probably a lot more money than we are, who are...
Tom Trevatt (17:57.672)
Mm-hmm.
Sure.
Jacqui (18:12.586)
what I call a jobbing photographer who will do this and who will do that, but do well and technically really, really well. So they're not necessarily caught from the same creative cloth, but they are technical and I'm not a technical photographer and I've never been. And I am a more of a feeling photographer and emotional photographer. And I can date that back to working in camera shops. And I was very young. I always worked in camera shops. And you would get some guy who has, you know, all the equipment in the world would come in and ask.
very technical questions, and then I would look at their work and think, oh, Jesus Christ, if I had your cameras, what I could do with it. But because they just had money and the sort of technical know-how, there was no emotions in their photos. And I'm the opposite. I think I'm more emotional and less technical. Like I'm not a gear head or anything.
Tom Trevatt (18:58.858)
Mm-hmm. But presumably, you know, a couple of decades worth of shooting weddings where you have to be quick, you do have to feel it. You know, you have to dial in the settings and know them well enough to get the shot. But beyond that, you don't need to know anything more in a way, do you? There's a...
Jacqui (19:10.317)
Yeah.
Jacqui (19:15.009)
Mm-hmm.
Jacqui (19:19.446)
Well, you don't need to know about studio lighting because you're not using it. Well, actually I do use off camera flash for certain situations. Yeah, but I've been doing it so long, I know exactly. I shoot everything manually on weddings and I know what works for me and I know where I'm shooting for, if I'm shooting for the shadows, you know, and all that sort of stuff. So I know it inside out. And then when you go bring that to the studio it's incredibly different. It's like starting again, or it's like shooting.
Tom Trevatt (19:45.501)
Yeah.
Jacqui (19:47.914)
It's like writing your right hand and then writing what your left hand, I think.
Tom Trevatt (19:50.374)
Mm-hmm. Do you feel like you started again when you got into the studio for the first time? Hmm. Because I don't think I can see that in your work, necessarily, like I can see the sensibilities of somebody who knows how to, you know, their way around a camera in your work. Okay.
Jacqui (19:54.302)
Yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely.
Yeah, the camera is fine. So it was all the rest of it that came with it, especially because I always relied on available light. And I know that comes, you know, there's an element of fear in that, you know, I like I was no, it's fine. I'm great with available light. So I'll just stick with it. But of course, there were times it would have been great to add something in. But I was just afraid of it for a long time. And I sold myself as an available light photographer. But I realized now that there was a lot of fear with that. But
It takes a while to not be like I can, a window like to me is just, I can do whatever I want with it and shape the light really well with it. But then suddenly you're in a studio where you're using, you know, you have to get to know what the mod, which modifier works for you. And that takes time, actually, because you buy all the modifiers and, you know, and you buy loads, you buy, I have to have that one. And then you think, gosh, that looks awful. Why? How come that guy gets a really good result with that? And I can't because again, you have to find what suits you.
Tom Trevatt (20:39.934)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jacqui (21:01.882)
And all of that takes time, but the camera, of course, yeah, the camera stuff isn't a problem for me, but it is the other stuff. So it's been two years, it's taken two years to really get comfortable.
Tom Trevatt (21:12.253)
Different modifiers work for different faces. You know, different modifiers work for different faces.
Jacqui (21:14.894)
Say again? Oh yeah, absolutely. But even I would use, I was at right, I've seen that shot and I love it. And it's a guy with a slim face, sort of, you know, maybe an older guy. And I really want that sort of harsh light. I'll do, I'm gonna kind of do my version of that. And then it just seems to look so different. I don't know, it's just, I am, but it's also what your comfort level is. So it's like, we all have a different lens that we prefer that works well for our style.
And I feel the same about modifiers. And when you kind of find the modifier that you think, oh, that's what I've been trying to get. And suddenly I have it now. That takes time too. Yeah.
Tom Trevatt (21:50.026)
Suddenly it makes sense. Yeah. I found that fairly recently with a new modifier that I've gotten. It's just like, yeah, it's just a, an umbrella kind of big white on the inside. I'm sorry, technically like, like you technically I'm not the best. Hi, big.
Jacqui (21:55.787)
What is it?
What size?
Yeah, well, that's probably the same. So that's probably the, like, that's what my, that's the one I love, the very large white umbrella. With a sock on it.
Tom Trevatt (22:16.778)
Yeah, I've got a 160 and I think it's like maybe 120, I think, 120 centimeter. Yeah.
Jacqui (22:24.234)
Yeah, the 127, yeah. Because the seven foot is the next one up from there. So this is five foot. So this is sort of the same one we're talking about. And the seven foot that I do know is supposed to be amazing. Maybe I can get it now in the new place, but I just have got seven foot. Well, I have, you know, I know it would be good and I will probably, that's probably my next purchase. But yeah, same, big, soft. That's what I like.
Tom Trevatt (22:29.162)
Sure.
Tom Trevatt (22:46.874)
Exactly, exactly. While we're on the subject of gear and you did mention lenses, come on then, what do you shoot on?
Jacqui (22:52.566)
50. And that's my 50 mil. And I shoot on some old, like my, I shoot on Nikon. So I have, you know, my trusted 50, 1.8 with the Nikon Z. But then I have a beautiful old vintage 50 mil that I got actually on a trip back to Prague recently. And that's beautiful. Obviously it's a slower way to shoot and I maybe don't favor being too slow.
Tom Trevatt (23:15.347)
Yeah.
Jacqui (23:20.726)
But it's lovely, it's just soft. It's very soft, which I love. And that's mainly what I shoot. I pull out the 85 and I pull it away again, I can't get it. I just, in every other aspect of photography outside the studio, I know the 85 is amazing, but for me it doesn't really work. So I would like to try 58 and, you know, like playing around with other lenses, and I will. But for now it's 50.
Tom Trevatt (23:37.142)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, makes sense. I mean, I do find 85 a little bit tight when it's on a full frame, but because I shoot on medium format it resolves around 67mm, which is what I feel much more comfortable at. It's a very pleasing kind of focal length, so anywhere between 50 and 70mm really works for me. Whereas if it's wider than 50, it just feels...
Jacqui (23:56.945)
Hmm.
Jacqui (24:04.034)
Yeah.
No.
Tom Trevatt (24:14.174)
just like you know the 90s
Jacqui (24:15.85)
No, no, I wouldn't do it. I mean, I have one shot on my website that I love and it was accidentally shot on a 24 mil because I was running out the door, I think in a drawer I was like, I'm sure I've got a really old 50 mil in there. I must bring that to the studio and shoved it in my bag and then put it on in the shoe and then realized it was a really old 24 mil. And I loved the shot, but this woman could take it, you know what I mean? Like...
because it just worked, but it wouldn't work with everyone. But that's then what made me think, okay, well now I need a vintage 50 because I love the kind of quality of it.
Tom Trevatt (24:51.777)
it's a path once you get down once you start going down that vintage lens path it's a
Jacqui (24:55.414)
Well, I tell you what, don't go to this camera shop that I went to in Prague because it's three, four or five floors of camera equipment. And about two of them are vintage stuff. One whole place, one part of it is like it's just one of the best camera shops you could ever go to in your life. So don't go there if you want to come away without any money.
Tom Trevatt (25:15.632)
Well, I will get the details after we finish. Sounds amazing. Tell me about a shoot that you've done recently that you really loved.
Jacqui (25:18.51)
That's very cool.
Jacqui (25:25.415)
Mmm.
Jacqui (25:28.65)
And actually there was one, I mean, I had a young actor come in who booked, you know, like a basic package. And then as we were, and he'd never done a headshot. And this is about maybe six months ago, maybe. He'd never done a headshot session before. Very new to acting. And probably about 20 minutes in, he was like, actually I want to do more. Can I upgrade to the next package? Because he was really enjoying it and realized that he'd sort of booked the kind of the wrong size package really. And I did say that to him. I said, you know, that's kind of just one-off shots and what you want is something more creative. And he just really came out of himself and like arrived wearing these really nerdy glasses which were really cute on him. But you know, by the end he just looked like he was, I don't know, he just looked amazing kind of full of, full of vim. You know, he just brought a lot to it. And I love that, that we kind of saw him come from never having a shoot to just really, really killing it and realising himself that he needed to value this more in the middle of the shoot and kind of put more into it as in more money as well, which is good for me.
Tom Trevatt (26:32.67)
Yeah.
course. I love it when that happens when people recognize the value of the photography but it's very tricky because it's always a balance between you know spending more money essentially at the end of the day and you know we know how in how much short supply money is. In such short supply anyway we'll cut that one out. Everyone's fucking skint. Yeah no
Jacqui (26:53.291)
Yeah.
Everyone skint basically, yeah. Yeah.
Tom Trevatt (27:05.262)
One of the things that I love about the sort of the process that I work in, which is essentially it's relatively open. There isn't packages. It's just like, you know, you come and do the shoot and you choose with photographs that you buy is that people don't necessarily come with a predetermined idea of how many photographs they're going to buy. And they come away being like, Oh, well, I love that one. I love that one. So let's go for it. And that's obviously.
Jacqui (27:20.028)
Yeah.
Yeah, I've tried different ways and I'm still experimenting with that. I've, you know, like even over the years with my other website that sometimes I would have prices on and sometimes I wouldn't. And we'll just see how that goes. Prices aren't always wins out, I think. But and yeah, this way, I'm probably going to change again soon, you know, because I'm just I'm just trying to figure out what works best for me and for the clients. I kind of for me, I sort of would rather just have.
Tom Trevatt (27:47.614)
Mm-hmm.
Jacqui (27:54.102)
have one flat fee and then they buy extra and then you have to look around what's around you and are you gonna is it gonna seem too foreign for people to look at and kind of think well that's i don't really understand that so i'm trying to figure that out and um probably in the new place i will just go with i think one fee but they just the psychology of packages works in that you know it's studied and we know it works and so there's that as well
Tom Trevatt (28:18.151)
Mmm. Yeah.
Absolutely. They're kind of always picking the middle package and you've got to try and make the middle package what you want to be regularly selling, of course. Which is, you know, very much comes from the kind of, um, either the wedding world or the actor's headshot world. You know, I think when you say, you know, look at what's around you and look, you know, what are people used to. If you're an actor, yeah, sure. Okay. You might be used to seeing these kinds of packages, but if you're not an actor,
Jacqui (28:30.017)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Tom Trevatt (28:52.006)
You've probably never looked at a headshot photographer's website in your life before. So how you price what you do is completely up to you. And, you know, they will be like, well, you know.
Jacqui (29:00.138)
Yeah, no, you're right. And I've never ever in all the years with any kind of corporate headshots or any other kind of commissions I ever got, I've done lots of authors and stuff, and over the years, this would be all out of the studio. I've never done a package. So I think maybe I have sort of bought into that thing at the studio. So as I say, it's all an experiment still, and I will see what finally sticks. And sometimes I get, I think, I'm gonna change it.
Tom Trevatt (29:24.574)
Mm-hmm.
Jacqui (29:27.646)
Oh, but I had that guy inquiring yesterday. I don't want to change it while he's still about to look. And then, you know, and then that happens. And then I think, well, I can't just wait for that guy. So I just change it. But yeah, we'll see. We'll see how that goes in the next sort of few weeks and what I decide to do.
Tom Trevatt (29:32.434)
Yes, exactly.
Yeah. It's always about kind of just, it's an iterative process, isn't it? It's always about changing just a little bit here, changing that back, trying this, this thing out and seeing what happens. I mean, you know, you get scared because you're like, what happens if no one books me for that month, because I've, you know, and then you're like, Oh, I can't pay the rent.
Jacqui (29:48.161)
Yeah.
I know. And it might happen. And, you know, in 24 years of being a photographer, there have been years that have been unbelievably good, where you think I am riding the gravy train. Oh, my God, I'm actually going to be quite a well-off person for the rest of my life. And then you'll have a year, which is just shocking. And because you work for yourself, you might have another year where you've got a lot of stuff going on outside and that takes you away from your business. You know, stuff beyond your control. So it...
In the lifespan of a career, there will be a lot of ups and downs. And you will, as a self-employed person, you will live in fear. It never goes away ever. Uh, you know, it goes away for about five minutes when you've got a few good jobs and you're like, haha, I'm amazing. But then the fear comes back and bites you on the ass pretty quickly. So, um, fear is just part of being self-employed. Definitely.
Tom Trevatt (30:30.09)
Mm-hmm.
Do you think that holds you back at all, the fear? Or do you think it drives you? It drives you. It pushes you to seek more, yeah.
Jacqui (30:53.27)
No, I think it's the opposite. Yeah, yeah, because you have to pay the bills. I don't come from money. I've always been sort of very self-sufficient. I was single for many, many years. It was just me. So if I didn't get it and wasn't coming into the house, so yeah, I've always been driven. I'm not a money-driven person. I'm driven by paying my bills. You know, I need to get them. Yeah, yeah.
Tom Trevatt (31:18.988)
We're all driven by paying our bills, yes.
Jacqui (31:21.558)
So I think it drives me. I think what you have to be careful of is you can kind of get stuck in two ways. You can get stuck in, okay, great. Phew, I've made the rent now, I'm fine. And then maybe coast after that. That can be very easy to, and then get comfortable. But it's about kind of going beyond that and then being still uncomfortable, even though you've covered your bills, enough to get more work in. Because it's hard to do that.
Tom Trevatt (31:36.458)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I think that's my approach is that, yeah, you hit that point where it's like, okay, at least I know I've got those sorts of things covered, but actually the, the process of trying to ride that roller coaster ride up to the, to the top is the really enjoyable process because you are pushing outside those comfort zones, trying new things.
Jacqui (32:02.465)
Yeah.
Yeah, and that's really important. And I was guilty of that different point in my life which has kind of been relieved that I had enough. But then I did a mentoring session with somebody and they kind of figured out why I did that because we all have different money things wherever you come from. And I come from a background where money could be an issue and I would worry as a child and then I would not. And then I'd realize money was okay. So I'd stop worrying. Like this was all going on in the family.
And I brought that into my business too. And when someone told me that and said, that's what you're doing, you're kind of living in fear on fear, fear. You keep putting yourself back in. Then I was able to let go of that and say, okay, now I can go further and not just be relieved when money, the right amount of money is coming and then go beyond that.
Tom Trevatt (32:57.154)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think my mom hates me because of the, my lack of fear of being, of not having money. But I think, but I think that for me, that comes from having spent significant portions of my adult life. And we're not talking about like teenage or early twenties, we're talking about kind of late, late twenties, early thirties with no, with no money, not that there's not been a source of income or that I've been spending it.
Jacqui (33:05.636)
My mother used to say I was fearless too.
Tom Trevatt (33:27.358)
just that I've been so dedicated on other things like my education or like running galleries and doing it on absolute shoestring budgets, that there has never been any kind of, you know, sort of buffer zone, because there's never been any money, you know, any real money coming in. And I think that actually gave me a really good basis in, in a way to, you know, take that risk. It's like, what's the worst that could happen? Oh, I'm poor for a little bit. Oh, I have to, you know,
Jacqui (33:34.635)
Mm.
Yeah.
Tom Trevatt (33:54.578)
borrow a little bit of money or I have to eat beans on toast for a month or something like that.
Jacqui (33:56.844)
Yeah.
The more risks I would, if I have literally, if I have 20 pounds in the bank, which thankfully I haven't had for a long time, but I would tend to take more of a risk than if I had 200 pounds. So what, there's only 20 quid, it doesn't matter. So I'll just go for it. But thankfully things are a little bit better now. But yeah, money is a thing, you know, I'm not money driven. Sometimes I look at other professions and people I grew up with and I think, ah, okay.
Tom Trevatt (34:15.014)
Yeah, exactly who cares.
Jacqui (34:29.07)
probably more sorted because I haven't gone for a creative career. And I think anyone would, they would be sort of jealous of people, maybe who had a creative career, not necessarily jealous, but find it interesting. And I think as I get, when I retire, I'll be like jealous of them. I think, okay, you went to the same place every day for 30 years and now you've got money in the bank. And yeah, what's that? Yeah.
Tom Trevatt (34:50.822)
Yeah, you've got a pension. What's the pension? Yeah, exactly. Guys start a pension. Marketing, marketing yourself as a small, a small business in a, in a reasonably small city, I mean, because of Brighton and Hove is a city, uh, just, um, how do you go about it? What's your kind of go-to set of methods?
Jacqui (34:59.278)
Tell me about it.
Jacqui (35:03.618)
Hmm.
You might not be asking the right person this. I mean, I'm getting help with this now, very good help. But...
It's a difficult one because look Instagram is the beast that we have to feed and I hate it. Like hate it. And I know that I scroll through and I look and I think oh my god they seem to be doing so much better than I am. But of course Instagram is full of bullshit. It is. We all know that. Like nobody is really, you know, sorry to burst anyone's bubble but no one's doing as well as they're doing. They probably say they're doing on Instagram.
Tom Trevatt (35:52.647)
Of course.
Jacqui (35:55.042)
So, but yeah, we all know that, but yet we still believe it, but we still need it because your clients definitely need a reference. And then, and I go to a business's Instagram because I want to see that I want to see their aesthetic on it. I want to see how I want to see it. It tells me a lot. That grid will tell me a lot about a business and a lot of clients will never come near your website ever. They will just look at Instagram. So it is good that way, but I don't love it. And I'm not on there enough.
Tom Trevatt (36:24.147)
Mm-hmm.
Jacqui (36:24.658)
And I sometimes I would be really good and I think, oh, that's it. I'm going to crack. And then I do nothing for days or weeks. So that's always been a problem. So word of mouth originally was my business for years, for many, many years. And I've always all my work was referrals. I never advertised. But obviously, this is different now. So. It's it's all pretty new. And I know networking is going to be very big for me when I move to my new studio.
Tom Trevatt (36:48.018)
Yeah, of course.
Yep.
Jacqui (36:54.658)
there are some places near there that I have to get kind of, there's a pub called the Actors Pub around the corner from the studio. If I can't at least set foot in there, that's probably a good place to go, isn't it? But yeah, I'm not great at it, to be honest. So I'm not really, I can't really kind of give words of wisdom there. My, actually the one thing I can say is be authentic. Whatever it is you're gonna do in promoting yourself, be authentic about it because that's who you are.
Tom Trevatt (37:01.158)
Yes, there is. Exactly.
Jacqui (37:24.818)
If you're putting one thing across and then they meet you and you're something different, it just doesn't gel well for the person.
Tom Trevatt (37:30.29)
No, absolutely. And I think that, you know, you touched on social media and especially Instagram, I think the platform actually these days rewards authenticity. It rewards that kind of sense of.
um, getting a real look in the behind the scenes, like who, who am I as a person rather than just like, who am I as a business owner or who, or what does my business want to say? It's like, okay, let's find out a little bit more about this person. Because everyone's going to build up these kinds of parasocial relationships with us, right? That's kind of what we want to be sort of promoting in a way. Um, uh, yeah, it's, it is tough, but you know, that's all these sorts of things.
Jacqui (37:49.546)
I know.
Yeah.
Yeah, I wish I was better at it. I don't think it's my language. I think, you know, I wasn't born and bred with it. So I feel maybe I'm just that bit too old. And I think I'm better at it than other people my age might be. But like, I don't know, I think if.
You look at, oh, I look at some guys who are in their 20s and what they put together on social media is fantastic, you know, because it's just easy for them. It comes very naturally to them. And I think that's probably where some of us photographers who've been around for a while might struggle a little bit is because I never understood. I'm starting to understand it more because it's taken me years. Why do I have to sell myself as a person? Why? Like, what's that got to do with the price of eggs? You know, I'm like, look at my work and if you like my work, book me if you don't.
Tom Trevatt (38:28.219)
Absolutely.
Jacqui (38:54.254)
And I have photographers that I know who will, you know, their whole Instagram is far too personal, I think. You know, there is a lot of stuff about them and it feels very self-involved. And I think I hit a wall a few years ago when there was a photographer I knew who, a woman who was just taking selfies of herself in her underwear and saying she was speaking her truth. And I swear to God, I nearly threw my phone off a wall. I thought, Jesus Christ, what the hell is that about?
you know, what does it even mean? And I am old school where I've literally used my elbows to get in front of other photographers to get a shot in the press days. You know, I was the only woman and now I see photographers being in their brown makers and I think, Jesus Christ, you've come backwards so much. So social media winds me up about that. I don't get it, but I'm starting to understand more, especially with the studio. And I'm looking forward to doing that now with the new place is people want to see where they're going.
Tom Trevatt (39:43.463)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Jacqui (39:53.906)
I want to do more background and this is the place you're going to be coming into. And you know that because that's attractive, I think, but they don't need to know what I have, you know, what's going on in my private life. They don't need that, but they want to see. I like that we can share more behind the scenes. And that's kind of part why I'm looking forward to going to my new place. I didn't really, I tried it in my other place. It just was very unphotogenic.
Tom Trevatt (39:57.702)
Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Mmm, yeah, of course. It does make a difference, doesn't it? Yeah, I mean with the new place you could, you know, there's, there's five reels wait, waiting to be made, you know, just decking it out, ripping up the carpet, putting paint on the walls, all the kind of stuff that you can, you know, you can do. All of them are like easily, you know, sort of 15 to 20 second reels. Boom. Exactly the location. Yeah, just get...
Jacqui (40:18.099)
Yeah, it does.
Oh my god, I know I've had that, yeah.
Yeah, and the location. Yeah, like if you ever get lost, the pavilion is there. Like, you know what I mean? So, yeah, right, just shout and I'll hear you. So yeah, there's all of that. So that straight away, that's gonna hopefully create some bit of a buzz with local people, you know, local people, I hope. And maybe get other people to share it a little bit more. So.
Tom Trevatt (40:42.794)
Yeah, go to the pavilion, call me.
Absolutely.
Absolutely. Um, if you could share some advice for your, I'm not going to say younger self, because I think that obviously you were getting into a different type of photography, you know, 20 years ago, but a version of you that was getting into headshot portraiture that you're doing at the moment, what would your advice be?
Jacqui (41:09.506)
Hmm.
don't buy all the things. Yeah, you know, take your time. And that's hard to do, because you think, oh, I need this and I need that. And you and I can understand why you think you need that. I really do. But start off very minimalist, I think, and then add on if you feel you need it. I think that's higher things, you know, rather than buying a very expensive modifier, and then it just sits there. So maybe higher stuff.
Tom Trevatt (41:22.602)
I don't buy all the things, yeah.
Jacqui (41:50.822)
second hand, gum tray, yeah. Think about the lighting stuff. I made a mistake with, well, no, I don't, I love my, I've got Elinchrome and I love them, but I use Godox stuff outside of the studio. So I have a bag that's ready for outside the studio for any kind of corporatey or stuff like that. And I wish I just, I should have just stuck with Godox for the studio, because then everything is interchangeable. So that was a bit silly.
Tom Trevatt (41:59.975)
Nice.
Tom Trevatt (42:08.298)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, these proprietary mounts that they all have, right, on these lights.
Jacqui (42:19.55)
I know, right? But I mean, I love the Elinchrom modifiers. I absolutely adore them. And I know that if I, and I haven't yet gone down the constant lighting thing, but I will get adapters for them. But yeah, so I think it's just take your time. Don't necessarily shoot people you know, because I think it's hard to get what you want from people who know you really well. I've always found that.
Tom Trevatt (42:43.655)
Yeah, fair.
Jacqui (42:46.006)
One good tip is I've always used is life models because I think they're brilliant to have in the studio. They're very used to being sitting around for a while and they have a very specific hourly rate. If you're not just doing trading for, you know, free stuff, actually pay these people because we want to be paid. So it's good to pay them. You know, so I think having hiring your local life models is a brilliant way to get used to working in the studio and working with new people.
Tom Trevatt (42:53.647)
Mm-hmm.
Absolutely.
That's fantastic. That's a great tip. Um, just before we wrap up your, your new studio is 30 seconds walk from the grand parade sites of Brighton university, including one of the better, you better photography courses, uh, in, in the country. Um, do you have any connections to them?
Jacqui (43:31.464)
Mm.
I would have used, I used two years ago, and I used to have a lot of students, one point a long, long time ago, I worked in a studio at the top of St. James's street. So we would get students coming in there for work experience, who always had very high hopes for their photography. God bless them. But so now, have I got any connections right now?
Tom Trevatt (43:53.353)
Nice.
Yeah.
Jacqui (44:04.574)
Only ex-students really. Because Mark … Mark, Mark Power, is easy, he can't be still there.
Tom Trevatt (44:08.906)
power. I think he is, I follow him on Instagram and he's still posting stuff. I'm sure he is, he was there when I was there.
Jacqui (44:18.962)
Yeah, yeah, whenever I used to go there a lot when I was younger, I'd go to all the end of year exhibitions and stuff like that. He was the guy, wasn't he? His industrial photos and stuff. Yeah, he did come up on my Instagram, actually. He was almost have a look again. But no, I'm trying to think. No, weirdly, no. No, the Phoenix Arts Centre, which I love. I definitely know a few people there. That's a place I would have loved to have had a studio, but. Long, long wait list of about five years, I think.
Tom Trevatt (44:25.342)
Absolutely.
Mm-hmm.
Ah yes, great studio spaces. I think you've done a better job. I think having your own space slightly separate is not a bad idea.
Jacqui (44:53.126)
Yeah, no, it's going to be amazing. But yeah, so that's the exciting thing. So, but I'm not sure when we will be putting this out, but everybody come and check me out in the middle of Brighton.
Tom Trevatt (45:03.458)
Exactly. Uh, talking of which, um, how do we find you online? What's the best place to find you? Jacqui McSweeney.com and yeah, we will post everything in the little description down below as well. So people can follow the links. Um, and they can add you on Instagram and so forth as well.
Jacqui (45:09.45)
Jacqui McSweeney.com
J-A-C-Q-U-I.
Yeah, and I'm always happy to, I'm always delighted to hear from anyone. And if you even, you know, if you have ideas of what you want to do, or if you're unsure, is this the right? Because I, there's a thing that I, before we wrap up, but branding photography is huge, right? I feel like I want to be able to get people to have grown up images, which is for me is come into the studio and have grown up images and not you out in a coffee shop. Drinking coffee and laughing. I feel, you know what I mean?
Tom Trevatt (45:51.122)
with a laptop in front of you, yeah. Yes, of course.
Jacqui (45:54.526)
So if somebody is watching this and thinks, which route should I go down? Talk to both a branding photographer and one or one of us and see what the difference would be. I think you can still do branding photography in a studio, but yeah, to be authentic about it. And I want to hear from anybody who wants to invest in themselves in having really interesting shots done. Yeah. Thank you.
Tom Trevatt (46:19.425)
Mm-hmm. Absolutely. That's fantastic. Jacqui, thank you so much. It was really great to have you on and I look forward to hearing more about the studio and seeing some behind the scenes footage of that. Yes, I'm sure I will. Thank you very much.
Jacqui (46:28.534)
Well, you know you'll see quite a lot.
Yeah. Thank you.