Confident in your Skin with Mervyn Reid-Nelson

In this episode of Photography Adjacent, I chat with Mervyn Reid Nelson, the body confidence photographer behind You At Yours. On the surface his work looks like boudoir photography, but Mervyn is at pains to point out that it is something else entirely. Over eight years and 800 sessions he has built a practice around helping people, mostly women, see themselves clearly, often for the first time. When it gets down to it, Mervyn explains in the episode why the photograph is almost beside the point. This is a conversation about bodies, power, desire, and what it means to feel seen.

Tom Trevatt Hi everybody, welcome back to Photography Adjacent podcast about photography and everything else. Today we are talking to amazing portrait photographer, Mervyn Reid Nelson, otherwise known on the internet as you at yours. Mervyn has got an amazing Instagram profile and online presence. And today we're going to talk to him about his business, about how he got into what he's doing and kind of where he is right now at the moment.

I'd love to hear from you, Mervyn, you know, tell me a little bit more about, kind of the story of how you got into what you do and how you describe what you do. Cause it's a little bit more difficult, a bit more complicated than just saying portrait photographer or Boudoir photographer or something like that. There's other stuff going on. So.

Mervyn Reid Nelson Hmm. Amazing. Thanks, Tom. You know, I have to admit there was a little bit of like shame that kicked up there when you said amazing online presence. I haven't posted in several weeks, man. Like, you know, I'm like, I'm so. But yeah, I'll get there. So, yeah, you at yours is is a bit of a unique one. It's it's not it looks like Boudoir on the outside and Boudoir is something I actively try to distance myself from as an art form. I respect it, but it's not what I do. My goal is really to work with my clients on the holistic side of things. Like, so how do you feel versus what you look like? A lot of people struggle with having their photograph taken because of how they feel they are observed in the world or how they observe themselves in the world. I should say. Their own perspective and perception of their body image is often warped, I would argue. And my job is to get them aligned with what their reality is and what everyone else sees. And for most people, they don't get that privilege to see that back to themselves. And I say to all of my clients, every single one, they sit there shitting themselves. Can I swear here, Tom, is that okay? Amazing. I give them credit. For every one of them, there's another 100,000 people who would say, no effing way am I doing that? You know, so yeah, it's a real journey into oneself and a real reflection from a, I guess, a holistic perspective as well as a visual one, you know, back onto themselves where they get to see, yeah, wow, I look like that and I can feel like that too. Yeah.

Tom Trevatt You swear as much as you like.

Yeah. Nice. One thing I forgot to mention is that you're a beautiful person.

Mervyn Reid Nelson Man, I'm single as well. I didn't know this was a...

Tom Trevatt You said not to talk about your dating life. No, we've been friends for about a year or just under a year. Our conversations when we meet up kind of go, run the gamut of all the kind of things that we could talk about. We obviously talk about business, we talk about photography, we talk about all the sorts of things that photographers might do when they get together. But then also we talk about friendship and love and masculinity and, you know, sort of philosophies of being a person really, I suppose. And I think that really why I wanted to invite you onto the podcast is not because I think you take beautiful imagery, which I think you do, but because clearly there's something about you as a person that lends itself to doing the job that you do. Like you could have been another type of photographer, but you chose this particular route for a reason. And you know, some people might say, why is a man taking photographs of you know, semi naked people, women, mostly, I guess, but you know, people in general. And you know, when we look at like the kind of classic boudoir photography, I'm using air quotes to describe boudoir photography here. It's normally, normally women because of a trust issue there. And I think that what your online presence told me before I met you was that you are very kind and warm and friendly and welcoming and clearly you make people feel safe. That's kind of the massive skill really, isn't it? In what you do beyond above and beyond being able to wield a camera. It's actually creating a space where people feel comfortable, safe, not challenged because of course it's going to be challenging. It's going to be revealing, but it's that safety issue that I think is kind of fundamental to it, which you've got in spades, you know, which is testament to you and to, you know, your business has grown because of that. Does that make sense?

Mervyn Reid Nelson Hmm. Yeah, I mean, I'm glad this is getting recorded because my god, I'm just gonna have that on loop. Thanks Tom. That's gonna be my like alarm clock in the morning, my little. That's great. Thanks. Yeah, I'd say that, you know, something I've learned about myself over the years of doing this is almost, you know, eight years and is that my skill sets absolutely people based over photography based and when you started the intro and called me a portrait photographer, I was like, where, who? I find it difficult to associate with being named a photographer because it's, I think, more of a natural skill set than something I practice or an art that I really try to hone. I think I'm very, very good at having people feel safe in my presence and then comfortable enough and subsequently confident enough to just let go.

And it's that letting go piece, then enables a space where you can just point your camera and shoot and you're going to get something pretty magical, especially for that individual. And that's the skill in it. I think where I have learned to be even better at my job is what comes with that. So the safety element beyond just, you know, having someone know that you're safe. It's also considering, you know, what they might have already gone through or considering things that they haven't even thought about. So, you know, I have a long chat with everybody that I work with and have them really fully informed of every last aspect of what's going to entail in this space and on their journey. And there's often a, wow, I didn't think of that piece, you know, and it's not only because of my years of doing it, but I guess my fascination with people and how much I find each person that sits in front of me a new story and a new way to, I guess, put that story across. And that's a part of my job that I love. I'll be honest, Tom, I get clients come through who have no interest in letting the guard down or letting the walls down. They just want to come in. They just want, you know, just make my tits look good, you know. I just, I don't have any interest in working with those people for the most part. And sometimes they slip through the net.

But for the most part, that isn't my ideal client base. It's people who really are on a journey of trying to love themselves again and connect with themselves in some way or another. And if they show up for themselves and I'm all in, yeah.

Tom Trevatt Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Where did it come from? Like where did you start?

Mervyn Reid Nelson Hmm. I actually was shooting weddings and events. I would argue maybe even beyond that, I've always been this way. If you're in my life, then I am an advocate and a celebrator of you as a person. And I will defend your higher self to the end point. You know, I've had arguments with friends who have been very self-deprecating where I've wrestled these words out of their mouths pretty much, you know, where they put themselves down. And I've always been that way. Shooting weddings was such an eye opener into how self-deprecating we are as a nation. You point a camera at someone and that's their arch nemesis, you know, and their defense mechanism is to tell you how fat and ugly they are and how you need to stand back a mile, mate, to get me in that picture and etc. And me being me would be like, don't say that about yourself. You know, I'm gonna show you how amazing you are and I would do this for every person or do my best at least. And so I'd I mean, I'm an empath at heart and I would, you know, carry 20, 30, 40, 50 people that would make these comments in every event, every wedding and go and sit in my car and cry at the end of it. Just emotionally drained from just carrying these complete strangers. And I got to a point where I was like, this isn't sustainable and I'm not really enjoying this anymore. And decided to turn my attention to helping people.

It went via the route of boudoir. I knew it was something around body image, but I couldn't put my finger on what that was. I hadn't formulated it in my head that it was going to be what it is today. And then looking into boudoir and following, you know, names I don't really want to name here because I don't want to shame anybody, but I realized after following some of these like key figures in our industry that that wasn't it. What they were doing didn't align with me, especially around things like Photoshopping and filters and I started off doing it and I was like, gosh, this is icky. How do I, how dare I adjust this person's body because of what I think it should look like, that's not okay. And so immediately dropped that after about a month of that. And then, yeah, then it started and I've been finding my feet. Well, it took me about two, maybe three years to figure out that it was nothing to do with the photographs actually, Tom, that gave these people their energy back, it was watching them leave the room and then getting these emails and texts being like, I am now, I've asked for the pay rise or I've dumped my toxic boyfriend or I'm wearing dresses again or you know, and that was really it, it still remains to this day, one of the greatest parts of my job getting that feedback. And to your point earlier, just to add here a little subline, that 99% of my clients are women. And I think the reason for that is one, I think we've been conditioned to see women's bodies more in that sense, like from lingerie stores to bikinis to even just being down on the beach, you know. Like I think there's a sort of normalcy around like women's bodies in that sense. And I think that's sort of like the platform for all of it. But beyond that from a photography perspective, I cannot pay a man, you know, your average man, as much as I've had this conversation a million times, come into this space, I'm going to help you feel better about your body. And they're like, wait, you want me to pay you to get half naked and I'm going to feel better. I don't understand it. Whereas women seem to get that there's a liberation piece or a freedom piece or reconnection piece where they're trying to connect with. In some cases, it's a form of joy. It's a form of liberalism. Sometimes it's sensuality, eroticism. It's these elements that they feel they've disconnected with and want to reconnect with. And they see it an opportunity to not only reconnect, but to have it captured. It's a mind state that your average man can't even comprehend because as men we've never been taught what sexy is. What does it mean to feel sexy as a man, you know, like, I don't know, a clean pair of boxers, you know, like there's just, there's not, we haven't been given that, the arsenal around how that, what that means to us and how we navigate it. So yeah, sort of that.

Tom Trevatt Yeah, yeah, of course. Up until this moment, I had probably not even considered that that would be an issue. That would be a question really, the idea that, yeah, the way that we're perceived as like as a man being perceived in that way would seem quite alien. But why does it seem so alien? And is it the language that we have inherited, the language that we all speak in about women's bodies is so radically different to the language speaking about men's bodies that it's almost that women become images and objects in a way. And is there something to be, I mean, we'll probably have to go through this a couple of more times to get to what I really like to meat of this, but is there something about that? Is there something about recapturing subjectivity away from being that kind of manipulated object?

Mervyn Reid Nelson Yeah, I would say there's some truth in that, especially for women, I'd say that they're reclaiming their bodies, especially those women who sit outside of, you know, what is stereotypically like, you know, beauty standards as far as what they look like, you know, and women who have gone through changes, who have gone through, you know, health issues, or who have had children, for example, you know, their bodies aren't, they have to deal with the change. And also now in many cases no longer fit into that beauty standard or shape or whatever is deemed desirable. So for them, even if it is just private, there's a reclaiming for many of them who are brave enough to do so, they want to have their images shared so they can have other women see, this is what your average body looks like. And it's really sad for me. I have quite a vantage point here because I get to see so many different types of bodies. And yet every person that comes in speaks as if their body is the unique one, the one that has the stretch marks and the cellulite. Whereas that is the commonality. And it's sad because what I mentioned earlier about, you know, how we're really exposed to bodies in a way, those bodies aren't a true representation typically of what the reality is in our world. You know, the UK average dress size last time I checked was a 14 for women, you know, you ask a size 14 woman and she feels normal, you know, she doesn't. And I think this art form, this practice allows them as individuals, and I will always stress to them, it is about you as an individual. Whoever else you want to influence with this is secondary to that. Unless you have children and daughters, especially, I'm like, actually, we need to get them feeling like whoever they are in the world is okay. But outside of that, yeah, it's a reclaiming, it really is. And also, you know, to touch on a really sticky subject here, many of the people that come in have come in because of issues they faced because of men. And they are reclaiming that for themselves also, which is something quite mind blowing to me that, you know, for them, they have the power and the strength to get back into a space with a man of the incident and say, this is my body and I'm taking it back. You know, it's the kind of stuff, you know, a lot of tears in these shoots, you know, it's really powerful stuff.

Tom Trevatt It strikes me that it's actually the question really is it is about power and control and autonomy and authority to sign on your own body and you know those sorts of things like. Obviously, we're recording this in a particular historical moment, which is after revelations. That's the CNN article about a horrendous number of men visiting an online platform that encourages men to, you know, abuse their wives and partners and stuff. It's a moment in which I think that we really need to take stock of how we talk and think about women's bodies. And as we are both men, we are having this conversation about women's bodies. Women are not in this particular room when we're having this conversation. There is a, we need to have that kind of acknowledgement that we are in this position doing so. And I think there's, yeah, this kind of power issue I think is important because what essentially patriarchy does is patriarchy is a system of subjection, a system of oppression and we live within patriarchy, we live within this system, it is the water that we swim through, it is the systems that we all participate in and it is actually the social contract that we sign willingly or not and because of that every interaction, every arrangement, every engagement, everything that we participate in, every sort of every social context that we're part of is underwritten by a form of oppression. Now, we're specifically talking about gender based sexual oppression, but that could also be racial oppression, it could also be class oppression, could also be ableism, those sorts of things. So we have these kinds of contracts within society that we're part of, right? And I think it's really interesting that you as a man are participating in, perhaps it could be understood as rewriting or at least critiquing or deconstructing that social contract. What is it that is being done within that space that provides the opportunity for people to point to and think about that water that we're through, but also to say, and I reclaim something from that, you know?

Mervyn Reid Nelson Yes. It's a tricky one. There's levels to this. Like I've had people approach me who have said, I want you man to shoot me because I want to see myself in the male gaze. You will know what men like. So I want you to take my photograph, which I completely rebuke. You know, I reject that. It's not what my job is. My job is not to help you further your dating, you know, or even, you know, in all seriousness to keep that cycle ongoing with the patriarchy. I don't want that. I don't want to be a part of it. I don't want to be a part of you being another, or your images at least being another part of that systematic cycle of women having their bodies objectified. It's, if it's for you and that's something you deeply desire, great. But that's my second part of this point, which is I have to sometimes question my clients when they do let themselves go, when they feel like somewhat connected to themselves. Just before that point, there's a performativeness. And I have to question that. I'm like arching your back, for example, where does that come from? You know, what makes you think that that's something that would look good right now? You know, cause I can tell you're doing this for the camera. Those people that are confident enough to do it at that point. And we sit and we have a conversation about it and there's often an unawareness, you know, it's so deeply entrenched in how the, I say they like women who act that way are moving through the world. And my work is to sort of really pull that apart and get back to the core. Like, who is she beyond the performative one who knows that if I just act this way, I will get the attention of men. And what can I do beyond that? The ones that are really the real eye openers are those people who are just there's a clean canvas here, there's nothing, they've got nothing really pulling at that and they just have no connection at all to I guess what you speak of here, which is the underwritten contract. There's a pureness about it. And you really do get a sense of this human coming in without this noise or without this the puppet strings and they are genuinely just joyful and playful and whatever comes out is whatever comes out. It's rare but it happens and those are the ones that you know, you get a true sense of, a bit like children, that pureness, you know, and how children are pure and they haven't yet been touched by the hands of all this shit frankly. Yeah.

Tom Trevatt Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, you're dealing to some degree, whether we kind of, you know, whether you like it or not, or whether people want to participate in this game or not, you're dealing with, to some degree, a conversation around desire and desirability. Like there is obviously the body confidence piece. There's the part about, you know, feeling good in one's own skin, but there is also an aspect of, probably, you know, you talked about that idea of like, I want to be seen by you because you're a man. That may be something that is kind of in the back of a lot of people's minds, maybe. And it might be that, you know, because what is desire, desire is like the appeal to another person. It's the kind of creation of human connection through sexuality, let's say. And or, you know, something around around that. And so there is a piece of this, which is about desire and desire is a playful and powerful and, you know, how you wield desire and how you wield those kinds of powers. It's very, very interesting, but also I think what's important to know is that like. Desire, like what we assume to be our kind of like deep rooted internal desires that are different from everybody else's outside. No, it's not like if you get into it, like what do people desire? Often it's just very similar to what everyone else desires, right? Like there's a lot of, you know, we think that our internal world is so incredibly internal and protected from the outside world, but actually it's just often, it's just a kind of folding in of the outside into us and a kind of, you know, this is a kind of what, what you might consider kind of creation of subjectivity actually is like taking in from the outside and bringing in and maybe sort of curating or passing it through and putting it inside and those sorts of things. Like not having, like, you know, trying to understand us all as kind of being part of a web, you know, as a kind of, that we're all part of this kind of influential web that sort of, we're taking these bits and pieces from everywhere, for everyone else and everywhere else. I think that's kind of, you know, that's important as well when we, you know, not just doing what you specifically do, which is taking photographs of mostly women in maybe fewer clothes than I take photographs of people in. But like that's a part of what I do as well. Like, you know, people have internalized things and often when they're in front of the camera, they've internalized the assumed view of somebody else, this external big Other. And they've internalized this view, which when you were taking photographs of those wedding guests, what you were saying was that they were like, don't look at me this way. Like, oh, don't look at me. You know, don't look at me because precisely they could exist in the world, not being looked at. And then the minute that you're bringing the camera there, they're being looked at. And it's this kind of like, I'm now seeing myself through the eyes of someone else. So I kind of, I'm having to internalize the gaze of somebody else. Like I'm having to internalize that like examination of myself. And I often come up lacking in the eyes of the assumption of that other person. But like for you, you're like, no, I'm not thinking you're lacking. I don't think there's anything wrong. I don't think that you need to worry about X, Y, and Z. But yeah.

Mervyn Reid Nelson Yeah, yeah. To that point, Tom, you know, going back to what you said at the beginning, like, I've been told by people quite frankly, that it's because of my looks, why they've been intimidated to work with me, because I think they've put me on a plinth or platform of, you know, some description above themselves. And so they're intimidated that I am going to therefore think less of them or not, I'm going to judge them as being less than. Which is where it blows my little mind because that is one, it's not my job, that would be incredibly unprofessional of me and two, that is just not who I am as a person. But I can sympathize with that. I guess this is just the mechanics of insecurity and having a bit of a degree of low self-esteem. And on what you said there about desirability and discovering oneself, I think there's two types of people, you know, for everybody that comes through, I say to them, look, please, when you're thinking about what to wear, do not go into Google and type in what to wear on a sexy photo shoot, right? Because you're just going to get people that haven't got your body shape, people that are going to be lying on a bed upside down with an orgasm face, soft lighting, you know, and that's not who you are. So let's move away from, you know, type A person, which is looking outward for inspiration and move to type B person, who is looking inward for inspiration. When you go to a store and you want to buy a pair of sunglasses and the salesperson's like, Hey, this is our most popular pair. Do you move towards that or do you move away from that? You know, and I think that's the piece. And I'm trying to get all of my clients to be type B where you already have it. You know, when they get towards the end of their session, they're moving around the room without my instruction and they all think that's impossible for them, but it happens every single time.

And I remind them as they're standing there holding this pose that I've not asked them to do it. And I'm like, pause, scan your body. Why are you standing like that? Who told you? You were so convinced that you weren't comfortable in front of a camera yet. Here you are. Let's practice leaning back, leaning in to oneself. But it's terrifying to be ostracized. Unfortunately, Tom, to be the person who doesn't have the cool sunglasses, you know, you have to have a degree of confidence to lean back into oneself. I'm sat here wearing a green t-shirt and a lilac fluffy cardigan. You know, like it's, it's through practice and practice alone where you get to trust yourself and know that some things work and some things just don't, you know. And I think it's that practice and through an unwillingness of letting go of control whereby people are just, I'm generalizing of course, many of my clients at least would prefer to just pick the sunglasses, you know, and I think they're missing the trick being quite frank with you because yes, more social acceptance. Absolutely. And don't get me wrong. I've got several pairs of New Balance trainers and I, you know, have read some of the same books as everyone else, we all, you know, we all fall foul of it, but it's about being aware of what's happening. And when you are choosing oneself or choosing to be accepted by others. That's my sort of take on that. Yeah.

Tom Trevatt Yeah. Do people print your photographs? What do they do with your images?

Mervyn Reid Nelson Yeah, I'd say, you know, 30, 40%. I've always found selling wall art, and I don't even like the word selling, but really just encouraging them to invest in themselves. Quite difficult with the type of imagery that I produce with them, because there's a lot of who's gonna see it. My mom might come around or my dad even worse, you know, and see it on the wall, and I just have to remind them that for the 5% of the time that your parents are gonna come around to your home, it's worth the 95% of that thing being on the wall and you celebrating yourself. So yeah, I'd say like 30, 40% of people print something, but mostly it's the kind of thing they can tuck away and hide if in an emergency, like an album or a box of prints or something. Yeah.

Tom Trevatt Yeah. And presumably people do this because they want to freeze a moment in time, want to remember something, they want to be able to return to it in five, 10, 15 years to look at it and consider, oh, look what I looked like then. Or, you know, a lot of time, you know, I've had people come to me, you know, they might have sensibly come for a headshot, but they also say, actually, do you know what? I'm also here to celebrate myself in this particular moment in time. You know, I want to make a mark on something. My 50th birthday or you know, whatever those sorts of big kind of birthday things are right. So yeah, being able to print out is quite important. I think that, you know, we're so used to seeing photographs on our phone. I actually had a really interesting experience the other day where I was looking through all of my old photographs with my partner, like, so photographs I took in my twenties and I was showing her like, look what I look like here. Look, look where I went and you know, photographs of New York before the World Trade Center got knocked down, right? You know, she's like, my God, you're so old. You know, but like all of those were printed photographs. All of those I've gone out with a SLR camera with film in the camera and taking photographs and then taken them home, got sent them to snappy snaps or whoever was going to process them and got them printed. So I've got like a shoe box full of these photographs.

But I also have a phone full of snaps and a laptop and hard drives, obviously full of photographs slightly differently, but like a phone full of the similar kind of snaps, right? How often do I really sit there and scroll through my phone versus, you know, obviously I don't look at these photographs and printed photographs very often either, but like, what a wonderful experience to sit there and look at those printed photographs. And how often do we know that, no, that phone goes through an update and suddenly all of those photographs are lost or like you lose the password to your iCloud or Google drive or whatever. And suddenly you don't have access to these things. So nice to have the physical product there.

Mervyn Reid Nelson Yeah. Yeah. And the benefit of that, especially in my line of work is beyond just the keepsake. It's a bit like exposure therapy. You know, having this thing on the wall, say a picture of yourself, your body, you may not look at it every day, because certainly after the first few weeks, you know, you're going to kind of forget it exists. But by seeing it, I think it does something subconscious, I think it gets you used to what your body looks like more and more and more. And to the point where you now start looking at yourself differently in the mirror, you know, because you're now being exposed subconsciously to your body, I think there's an absolute benefit to it. I can't stress it enough, actually, I feel like we've somehow been relying on our devices a bit too much to act as memory cells, you know, where we'd sooner take the picture than try and remember the moment. And that's great on one hand, you know, I'm a hoarder of memories as well. Like, you know, capturing things and you know, I've just come back from a one week cruise to celebrate my aunt's 80th birthday around Mexico. And yeah, it was incredible. And I had to catch myself every now and then and just be like, just sit with it. Just be in the moment. You know, so they're getting your phone out right now. Just be with it. And also everyone there, I noticed everyone there had their phones permanently in their hands, just capturing everything and photographing everything. I was like, gosh, yeah, we've got the memory, but the memory now is of everyone with their phone in their hands. And it's just no longer the what could have been a quite tranquil, quite organic moment. With the view that we're so terrified of forgetting, so terrified of not capturing, so terrified that we can't share it, you know, that we miss out. Yeah, but I do agree. I think getting into a habit of printing, I try to every year. I do favourite my pictures, I'm good at that, but every year try to go back through the year and just print out the favourites and put them in a box, then it's done. Yeah.

Tom Trevatt Yeah. Nice. You also do education, so mentoring and one-to-one coaching and stuff for other photographers. Are most of your mentees also in the kind of sort of Boudoir body confidence, that kind of level of portrait work, or is it just broadly all photographers?

Mervyn Reid Nelson The former, or at least they want to be. I think what tends to happen is they get a whiff of my approach to photography and they resonate with it. They don't want to be the type of photographer who's just like a bit mechanical. Or, you know, come on in, stand like this, snap, snap, snap, here are your photographs. You know, I know Tom, you work the similar way to I do where it's very people focused, it's very energy focused, giving them time and space to be themselves. And where photography education at large is very much focused on the art of holding a camera and what to do with it, very little is mentioned around people skills and how you can have someone feel safe and how you can have someone feel seen. And so, you know, when I was teaching more nude photography, I don't do as much anymore. The focus really was on removing your ego as a photographer. Not making it about you or your art, but putting that person at the center and allowing them the space to manipulate and collaborate, you know, your art with you and your artwork. You know, I have to remind some of my clients who come in and they see themselves as this muse that I am the artist and they are just going to be this person that I manipulate, you know, and that's not the case at all. We're working together as terrifying as it is for some of them to hear. I say to them, quite frankly, I couldn't give a toss about your photos, you know, because that's not my focus. My focus is getting you to feel comfortable and safe in that environment. Then the photos are magical. So I think once these photographers who are going through their craft and developing their businesses hear that, I think they want a bit of it. And so I teach them more that side of things and how to effectively create better artwork through that practice. Yeah.

Tom Trevatt Nice, nice. And is there stuff, I mean, you know, you've really clearly defined who you are as a photographer and the direction you want to go. I remember sharing with you fairly recently, me listening to a podcast and hearing a Boudoir photographer kind of saying to a podcast, the podcast host, I give my clients like fitness programs and healthy eating plans because if they're coming to the studio and they're not in their best shape, then, you know, I'm not doing my job properly. And we both kind of like were grossed out by that kind of approach. There must be a lot of toxicity in the industry that you see on a fairly regular basis, because there's the way you, where you are positioned is very proximate to a lot of other types of, you know, nude photography, glamour photography, boudoir photography, other, you know, sort of all of this kind of stuff. To some degree close to pornography in a way as well. And there's a lot of kind of toxicity in all sorts of photography, sorry, but you know more walks of life. And especially, you know, this kind of whole like man with a camera thing, like, you know, I've got a camera, I want to take naked photos, you know, that kind of thing. Like, you must have some enemies in the business, right?

Mervyn Reid Nelson I think I've created some for sure. I've done several posts aimed at photographers who use Photoshop, for example, and really getting them to understand the implications of that. Another piece that I see and I have banged my drum about is before and after photographs, or before and after slides, and before and after comparisons. I understand it from a business, you know, leverage perspective. You know, you want to show someone, hey, here's where you're at today. Listen, look at what we can turn you into. It makes perfect sense. But what you're also doing is speaking to those people who may look akin to that person in picture A and saying, you ain't good enough. And what that does for someone who's minding their own business, you know, just happen to be scrolling on Instagram, you've now just given them a sense of inadequacy. And I am not for that. I am a celebrator of everybody, every person, every type, every type of body, even those people who do fall into picture B, sorry, forgive me. Picture B, you know, someone who's a size whatever, a blonde woman, you know, whatever, take the rest of the boxes that, you know, make you happy. Like, she still has insecurities, still doubts herself, etc. And could you argue there's some privilege there around, you know, beauty politics? Potentially, yes. She's not going to get bullied, you know, like someone who, say, is a size 16, you know, from a more conservative country, for example, like, but still has the right to feel good in herself like everybody else. So I guess I kind of lost my train of thought here. Actually I've gone off on one. Enemies. Thank you. Yes. Before and afters. Photoshop. And the man with the camera piece, Tom, yeah, you know, when teaching nude photography, yeah, it's usually 90 to 100% men who sign up to these courses and I sit there and I'm very honest with them. And I'll tell you now, boobs, one of the greatest things that ever happened to the planet, right? Everyone loves boobs. Women love boobs. Boobs, boobs, boobs, boobs. Great, great, great. But if you're coming in here pretending that you want to help people to love themselves and you want to encapsulate them and you want to be part of their legacy and you want to create art, but really deep down, you just want to see more boobs, you are going to get caught out very, very quickly, my friend, and it's not going to be pretty for you. So like, you know, and I'm very frank and you can tell the energy of the room shifts and you can tell immediately who are those people who are really trying to do some work here and who are really just chancers, you know, and it's quite uncomfortable. And I say, look, now's the time, now's your chance, stop now, or keep going, but pay someone. There are models out there who happily take your money, right? If you just want to take photographs of naked people, but do not bring your average person who's just trying to love themselves and just get some nice photographs as part of their legacy piece to come into your space because you happen to be one of the cheapest in London and she can't afford maybe another artist, you know, which, yeah, I have a document that I send to anyone who decides not to book with me of what they should and shouldn't be aware of, sorry, what they should be aware of and what to avoid when booking another Boudoir photographer to help them on their journey. It's really important.

Tom Trevatt Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think it's important to have enemies. Yeah.

Mervyn Reid Nelson Because that means you're doing something right. That means you're shaking the tree, you know, and that's my intention. I'm not afraid of shaking the tree. I think to be honest, one of the reasons I'm not on social as much as I used to be is shaking the tree is tiring, you know, and being someone who's not afraid to stand out takes its toll sometimes and with social comes comments and DMs and people having an opinion, everyone's got an opinion, and I don't necessarily think a lot of that is anything to do with me. I can share how I feel and what my approach is in the world and how I want to work with my clients one on one. Someone whose opinion has, who has no interest in working with me or even having a conversation. I've just, I'm not going to give them time or energy, frankly. So there you go.

Tom Trevatt Fair enough. So talking about that, what does the next year look like for you? What's the, is there things changing? Is there, what's happening?

Mervyn Reid Nelson Great question. So this year we reached 800 sessions. 800 in total. Thank you. Thank you very much. We're going to celebrate it at some point.

Tom Trevatt 800 in one year or 800 in total. Okay thank god for that. Yeah. Congrats.

Mervyn Reid Nelson I think what's happening, being really transparent with you, Tom, is there's a lot of work in the background to sort of get bigger to scale, if you like. But I'm doing it very, very slowly and very intentionally because unfortunately for me, I am the brand and I am the thing that people want and people want to get in the room with because I, you know, the accolades are all there for everyone to see, you know, on Trustpilot, etc. So I want to protect myself. I'm getting older. You know, I'm 40 this year. That's another thing that's happening, you know? And I don't have as much energy as I did say five years ago doing this. So we're scaling, but in a very slow intentional way. Looking at what markets we really want to be in and what are the ways in which we can get this message across to people. Because my God, there's a lot of people in the world who would benefit from letting go of some control and having themselves encapsulated and seen in a way that is so far removed from what they believe they are in the world. So that's my intention. Just to be a servant, actually, Tom, to be honest, to help and to serve more. Yeah, that's my goal.

Tom Trevatt Do you, when you say scaling, does that include bringing other photographers into the business?

Mervyn Reid Nelson Yeah, yeah, I think being again transparent with you, that would look more like them taking on the work. Those clients that I mentioned earlier, who don't really want to work with, you know, because there's a lot of them. And it's not their fault. It's not that, you know, I hold anything against them as individuals. They're just not the kind of people that fill my cup. But they also do want to have a service and they do want to have great images taken and they want to maybe have, you know, give a gift to their partner, etc. So there's nothing wrong with that. And I think we can service that or somebody else can service it, but it can be under the you at yours umbrella for sure. That's my work. And to also do more one-on-one coaching. So I coach a fair number of my clients post shoot. So this is how we continue the work and it's one-on-one, it's conversational. And I really enjoy that work. And I think I want to do a bit more of that without the photography piece. And maybe as a prerequisite to the shoot, you know, getting them feeling more confident in themselves and then entering the room versus the other way around. So that's something else I want to do also.

Tom Trevatt Interesting. Okay, very good. If people wanted to know more about you, where are they going to find you? Where's the best place to contact you to look at your work, to look at what you do?

Mervyn Reid Nelson If you know where my cave is. If you can find my cave, you got me. But in all seriousness, I would say Google you at yours and you'll find me on pretty much any platform you subscribe to other than maybe TikTok. I am not as active on Instagram as I used to be, but I will be in the relative near future. My newsletters are still pretty active. So I would say join the newsletter and you can do that just by, how can you do that? I think there's a form somewhere on the website, you can just put your email address in and you get email updates from us. But yeah, you at yours and we'll be doing more events this year starting, kicking off with the 800 celebration which would be a big one. That'll be sometime in the sort of late spring early summer. We'll be doing more frequent events for sure. So look out for that on Eventbrite and other places. Yeah.

Tom Trevatt Amazing. And just to round off, if there was a photographer listening to this, watching this, thinking, how do I get into the world of body confidence photography? How do I follow in the footsteps of Merv at you at yours? What would your first top of mind piece of advice be?

Mervyn Reid Nelson I think you've got to be brave. I think I am very much aware that, you know, this is who I am as a person and me doing this is just an extension of my world. But I am also aware that I'm a black guy doing this, you know? So I'd say to that person, take a look at your own life, what your experiences have been around this topic already, and then approach your business in a way that aligns with you. You know, and let your business be an extension of you because then you'll enjoy it more and it'll be more authentic. You'll find yourself not having to try to shuffle into what's expected of you in this industry. In fact, you want to go the other way. You really want to be as authentic as you can and your people and your clients will find you and they will love you as a result. That would be my advice. Yeah.

Tom Trevatt Lovely. Well, thank you very much. It was great chatting.

Mervyn Reid Nelson Thank you, Tom. My goodness. When I got the email being like, you've been invited, I'd be like, I don't know where I was. I think I was at the airport. I was like, me?

Tom Trevatt Of course, come on. Amazing, amazing mate. Well, yeah, thank you very much chatting. We're gonna stay in touch and we'll follow your journey and see what happens over the next year and obviously I'll come to your 800th session party or whatever it is that you're gonna do. Hopefully you're gonna come to my five-year birthday party.

Mervyn Reid Nelson Yeah, thanks Tom. Yeah. I will be there 100%. It was in the diary long before the invite came. I got a screenshot from you with just a date on it. I was like, okay, I guess that's in the diary, whatever that is. Party. How was it? 23rd. Yeah, it's in there. Cool.

Tom Trevatt Party 25th. Nice one. All right, buddy. Well, I'll speak to you very soon. Cheers man. Take care. And stick around, obviously.

Mervyn Reid Nelson All right, take care. Bye bye, bye bye. Yeah, of course.